D&D (2024) Is There A New Sheriff in Town?

[Imaro]

Now Daggerheart has gotten my interest, which is saying a lot. I thought I was pretty much done with new RPGs. I am certainly over this current iteration of D&D, as well as more complex systems requiring more free shelf space than I am willing to afford again. I am still looking over the materials, reading the discussions, and watching some videos to gain some better insight. I don't see a system trying to emulate existing game mechanics or designs that reinvent the wheel, but a system designed to enhance what really matters most: the play experience itself. It is most definitely a game enjoyed better in a live group that can interact on a personable level that a VTT or online chat cannot fully immerse.

Can Daggerheart usurp D&D? Impossible, but not improbable. But it can offer something that many people who have had enough of thinking D&D will always be enough because no one had tried to give them something different. Maybe this system can peel away some of those looking for more or different, and it may be just enough to give the majority a new option: another kind of game with more players willing and eager to do something different.

Are you serious... Daggerheart is pretty upfront about the numerous wheels (mainly PbtA but also many others) it is reinventing. This post comes off like you trying to subtly insult those with different tastes than your own while simultaneously engaging in the same unwarranted hype and praise you claim is for the "uneducated masses".

 

[Umbran]

Hem and haw all you want, but anyone who believes D&D is where it is now because it is a great system is lying to someone; either us or themselves.

Mod Note:
"If you don't agree with me, you are lying" is a problematic, red-text-earning position to take. Your critique should stand alone, without having to cast aspersions on the honesty of those who don't agree with you.

That's not to say it isn't a good (or even great) game system

"People who believe it is a great system are lying, which is not to say it isn't a great system..." is too incoherent and self-inconsistent to disavow the insult.

 

[mamba]

Can Daggerheart usurp D&D? Impossible, but not improbable.

you sure about that?

 

[Deset Gled]

So, for the record, I think that it's unlikely that Daggerheart will beat D&D. However, I also find the belief that D&D is Too Big to Fail to be even more unlikely, largely because it has, in fact, failed before.

That being said, to address this question:

Why Darrington though? Because it happens to be the current new release? Why not Chaosium (Call of Cthulhu is massive) or Paizo? Or Modiphius or Free League? All comparable companies, some larger than Darrington.

The answer is this:

The product itself is almost irrelevant to that. The sad truth about the modern world--in any industry--is that marketing matters much more than the actual product quality.

No RPG will beat D&D by being a better RPG. Even Hasbro doesn't think of D&D as being an RPG, they think of it as a brand. And what they want from that brand is a dedicated fanbase, a diversified and wide spread media base, and regular cash flow (not necessarily in that order).

Daggerheart, as part of the Critical Role family, is the first RPG that I have seen in decades that I think actually has a chance of coming close to touching D&D. But it's not because of the game. It's because Critical Role has a dedicated fanbase, they have a successful TV show, they're coming out with a video game, and their family of products has a regular cash flow. I look at the goals that D&D has had over the last few years and I see things like increasing their digital footprint, increasing awareness of the brand, increasing media presence with the movie, etc. Critical Role essentially started by playing in those areas, and is now moving from that success into the RPG market space.

If (and that's a big if) Daggerheart does end up surpassing D&D, it won't be because Daggerheart took control of the TTRPG market space by stealing players from D&D. It will be because Daggerheart expanded and grew the TTRPG market space. And it will be because the next time we see a contraction in the market (as has happened multiple times), Daggerheart might retain their fanbase (from Critical Role) while D&D doesn't.

From that POV, Daggerheart isn't a threat to D&D at all. For the time being, they're riding the wave of "a rising tide raises all ships", and we'll see who's left with what when the tide goes out again. A much more real threat to D&D is if an "investor group" or "private equity" team like Alta Fox comes in and guts the brand like it's a Red Lobster.

 

[Arilyn]

Daggerheart is a great game but not a D&D killer. I think WotC might see a small sales decline due to a combination of recent games being published, and that could concern Hasbro. That's about it!

 

[payn]

Feels like 08 in here where everytime a new MMO drops it’s the one to dethrone WOW.

 

[Imaro]

Feels like 08 in here where everytime a new MMO drops it’s the one to dethrone WOW.

Yeah im curious to see if Draw Steel & Cosmere end up with comparable hype and speculation.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I do know that over on the Critical Role subreddit there are people saying that if their Campaign 4 were to use Daggerheart instead of D&D that they would not be interested in following it. Campaign 3 also lost a good bit of viewers and momentum versus how well-received the first two were, so CR isn't exactly in the safest position to make a gamble on switching to their own in-house system versus if they had done it earlier.

 

[Morrus]

So, for the record, I think that it's unlikely that Daggerheart will beat D&D. However, I also find the belief that D&D is Too Big to Fail to be even more unlikely, largely because it has, in fact, failed before.

That being said, to address this question:



The answer is this:



No RPG will beat D&D by being a better RPG. Even Hasbro doesn't think of D&D as being an RPG, they think of it as a brand. And what they want from that brand is a dedicated fanbase, a diversified and wide spread media base, and regular cash flow (not necessarily in that order).

Daggerheart, as part of the Critical Role family, is the first RPG that I have seen in decades that I think actually has a chance of coming close to touching D&D. But it's not because of the game. It's because Critical Role has a dedicated fanbase, they have a successful TV show, they're coming out with a video game, and their family of products has a regular cash flow. I look at the goals that D&D has had over the last few years and I see things like increasing their digital footprint, increasing awareness of the brand, increasing media presence with the movie, etc. Critical Role essentially started by playing in those areas, and is now moving from that success into the RPG market space.

If (and that's a big if) Daggerheart does end up surpassing D&D, it won't be because Daggerheart took control of the TTRPG market space by stealing players from D&D. It will be because Daggerheart expanded and grew the TTRPG market space. And it will be because the next time we see a contraction in the market (as has happened multiple times), Daggerheart might retain their fanbase (from Critical Role) while D&D doesn't.

From that POV, Daggerheart isn't a threat to D&D at all. For the time being, they're riding the wave of "a rising tide raises all ships", and we'll see who's left with what when the tide goes out again. A much more real threat to D&D is if an "investor group" or "private equity" team like Alta Fox comes in and guts the brand like it's a Red Lobster.

CR is massive by our standards. But its viewership is a fraction of D&D players. And only a fraction of those will buy their game. It’s just not on the same scale.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

For me, seeing Perkins & Crawford join DP is very promising, due to their credentials. But, yeah - there are a few ttrpgs that IMO could take the top spot. I'm really interested in what Dungeon World 2e will be and if Draw Steel will make a big splash.

It's an exciting time IMO

An exciting time much like the late 70's when Runequest and Chivalry and Sorcery and Tunnels and Trolls all made a splash ... and the 80's where the mighty Avalon Hill released Powers & Perils, plus GURPS was new and Fantasy Hero was new ... and the 90's where FASA - FASA! - put out an actual fantasy RPG called Earthdawn ... and the 2010-ish era where we saw Pathfinder and 13th Age and Shadow of the Demon Lord and Dungeon Crawl Classics and others who were capitalizing on the perceived lack of enthusiasm around 4E D&D, not to mention the OSR thing snowballing right along.

I know not everyone was around for the entire history of RPGs but all of these things were thought of as big deals at the time and many of them went on to at least moderate success and many have some version in print today. None of them "de-throned" D&D and it is extremely unlikely that any of this new wave of OSR-Fallout games will either. It's also very premature to start speculating weeks and months after their release. There's nothing wrong with being excited about new games - there are new ones every year, especially Fantasy games - but the hyperbole is strong with the OP.