Is there an (official) race with ECL+0 and Cha+2???

[frankthedm]

Ask you dm to let you play a half satyr for a –2 WIS and a +2 cha, you and your dm would have to discuss the actual stats but given how randy satyrs are it wouldn’t be an unfeasible half-breed.

tiss beter than FRCS's motto "An Elf for Every Stat"

 

[Geoff Watson]

Take a Human, and spend your bonus Feat on Spellcasting Prodigy.
Effectively +2 Cha, as far as a Sorceror is concerned.

Geoff.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Still, out of curiosity; Anyone knows a player in FR who chose to be a standard (moon) wizard elf?

Me

-Hyp.

 

[EOL]

Take a Human, and spend your bonus Feat on Spellcasting Prodigy.
Effectively +2 Cha, as far as a Sorceror is concerned.

Geoff.

Yeah and then the party wizard takes the same feat and plays a sun elf and you're still behind the curve. And then when your friends catch you sobbing to yourself in the corner and ask what's wrong you have to tell them how the wizard has an effective int of 22 while you only have an effective cha of 20, and he gets spells one level earlier than you to boot!

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Me

Just one more proof that you're just weird.

Out of curiosity: Was it a standard wizard or a fighter/wizard?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

So it's ok to have races that give plusses to physical stats, but not mental stats?... That doesn't sound fair to me...

Who would play a Sun Elf Barbarian?...

Who would play an Orc Wizard?...

That's my point. Mental stats make or break a spell caster.

I've seen Human fighters (a lot). 3 feats at level 1 allow for a lot of possibility. I've seen Half-Orc fighters, usually big brutes with no finesse but who deals tons of damage. I've seen elven fighters, usually archers or/and rapier wielding ultra high dex fighters. Halflings are actually quite decent fighter/rogue.

Gnomes are the least likely fighters of the core race, yet there are surely more gnome fighter PCs out there than half-orcs sorcerers.

Many stats can contribute to the efficiency of your fighter but only one is really significant to a wizard. A penalty to INT cripples him, a bonus to INT empowers him greatly.

As the core rules stand, you will see wizards and fighters from many different racials backgrounds. But if a core race had +2 to INT (and -2 to STR) you'd suddenly see a very drastic decrease in variety.

 

[Caliban]

Yeah and then the party wizard takes the same feat and plays a sun elf and you're still behind the curve. And then when your friends catch you sobbing to yourself in the corner and ask what's wrong you have to tell them how the wizard has an effective int of 22 while you only have an effective cha of 20, and he gets spells one level earlier than you to boot!

If you are playing in FR, humans are where it's at as far as fire-based sorcerers are concerned.

Bloodline of Fire and Spellcasing Prodigy at 1st level give you a +3 on all your fire based DC's, and a +4 on saves vs fire spells.

You may only take these feats at first level, so only a human or strongheart halfling can get both of them.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Many stats can contribute to the efficiency of your fighter but only one is really significant to a wizard. A penalty to INT cripples him, a bonus to INT empowers him greatly.

"Cripples" is, I feel, an overstatement.

"My wizard can't have 18 intelligence at first level!" is not really a cry I have a lot of sympathy for.

Using point-buy methods, I tend to put a 16 in my primary stat. The 18 is usually more than I'm willing to pay for. The "standard array" uses a 15 in the same spot. At the cost of a few points in other attributes, the half-orc sorcerer can pay for a 17 Charisma, and have it drop to 15. Sure, he'll have poorer abilities overall, but the designers obviously felt that 15 was workable as a prime stat - it's their "standard".

Yes, he can't match the sun elf's 20 intelligence. But he's playable... as long as the campaign is not designed to cater exclusively towards min/maxed, tailored characters.

If a DM looks dubiously at my gnomish fighter and wonders how I'm going to survive as a melee-type with 20' Move and Small weapons, then maybe it's a poor game to try out the half-orc wizard, or the dwarven sorcerer. But not all games need an 18-20 in a prime stat for survival.

-Hyp.

 

[Xarlen]

Allow me to throw my two cents in here.

Ok, fine. Mental stats = Uber Spellcaster, where Physical stats= equal balance.

Then why is it Half-orcs get -2 to Int AND Charisma, for a +2 to Str? Apparently, Physical stats are more important then mental (Considering how the books state how to balance things in this reguard). Everyone's willing to make a Halforc and cut down on his personal appeal and intelligence. Sure! I can hit stuff! But add an ability to get better stuff on a spellcaster class, and folk go bonkers.

Why not give them a hurt in something like a -2 to Con, or -2 to Dex? Those are important to wizards. Thus, it's an exchange. You get less HPs, or easier to hit.

Then why not a Mental Stat for a Mental stat? I miss the old +2 Int, -2 Wis Gnomes used to get.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

"Cripples" is, I feel, an overstatement.

All this post because I used the word "cripples" instead of "hinders"?

English is not my native language, so sue me!

Remember, we are arguing "why is there no ECL 0 race with a bonus to INT or CHA", not "Is an Half-Orc wizard horribly underpowered?"

By arguing against having a core race with a +2 to INT I'm actually going against the "My wizard can't have 18 intelligence at first level!" cry that you have no sympathy for. Keep things in perspective.