D&D 3E/3.5 Is there ANY way to make whips good using WotC-only 3.5 material?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

ah. so do the rules say anything about "CDG"-ing while prone?

Nope; you're allowed to do it while you're prone.* However, merely being prone does not make you helpless, and therefore not automatically a viable target for a CDG.**


* - Heh, heh. He said, "do it." [/Bevis]

** - Heh, heh. He said, "viable." [/Butthead]

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hey Hyp, what's the range on a whip wielded by a diminutive creature? What about a colossal one?

I don't even know what the reach of a Large whip is.

A Medium or Small whip has a reach of 15 feet.

So, is that natural reach x3? Natural reach x2 + 5 feet? Natural reach + 10 feet? Or 15 feet?

The only reference we have for a Large whip is the Balor, who has a natural reach of 10 feet, and a reach with his whip of 20 feet. The only equation that matches both the Medium (15 feet) and Large (20 feet) examples is 'natural reach + 10 feet', but that doesn't seem right... and makes me wonder if the Balor's 20 feet is right for a 'normal' Large whip...

-Hyp.

 

[RangerWickett]

We just joke that all whips have a reach of 15 ft., because that's what the PHB says.

 

[BASHMAN]

I think a flaming, Viscious Whip could be good, but in my opinion, the best "whip" is a spiked chain. You can still trip with it, have reach, 2d4 dmg, disarm with it, and because it is 2 handed, does 1.5 STR dmg. Combine with improved trip and knockdown feat, and you have a real winner. Combine with combat reflexes and whirlwind attack, and you are unstoppable. Drink a potion of enlarge person, and you can hold attack everyone in a 40' by 40' room!

 

[RangerWickett]

The kusari-gama in the DMG is basically a spiked chain that has been reduced a size. It's one handed and finessable, can trip, has reach, and does d6 damage. It's really what I would like a whip to be. I don't need the 15-ft. reach thing, and the idea of actually having a whip that long is silly.

But I think the DM would have an aneurism if I asked for a *gasp!* Japanese weapon like the kusari-gama. I'll see, though, if I can use a kusari-gama, and I'll just call it a whip.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

Also folks, you can't take AoOs with a whip, since it doesn't threaten, so if you trip someone, you'll need a different weapon if you want to attack them when they stand up.

from the errata i found last night:

"You also can make a trip attack as an attack of opportunity."

you can't trip someone from the AoO that comes from standing. also from the errata:

"When you try to stand up from a prone position, the attack of opportunity comes before you get back on your feet. Since you're still prone when the attack comes, the attack of opportunity can't trip you."

however, reading the SRD entry for the whip, i now see what you're saying...

"The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack."

what in the hell area do you threaten?

 

[Legildur]

what in the hell area do you threaten?

You don't threaten at all with a whip, even though you can make melee attacks with it.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

You don't threaten at all with a whip, even though you can make melee attacks with it.

i don't understand. can anyone make sense of this? what's the logic behind defying the rules for just one weapon? from the SRD:

"You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action."

even if the whip functioned like a normal reach weapon (like a polearm) it should still threaten squares 15 feet away, but not up to 10. personally, since, the whip can attack into any suare within 15 feet, i think it should threaten all those squares. what's the deal with this?

 

[Hypersmurf]

what's the deal with this?

Just like if you're unarmed, you can attack someone 5 feet away, but you don't threaten that square.

Essentially, you threaten any square into which you can make a melee attack that isn't an unarmed attack or an attack with a whip.

Basically, with a whip, you can't take AoOs, you can't provide an ally with a flanking bonus, and you can't use feats like Mage Slayer... but you can still use melee-specific feats like Power Attack, for example.

-Hyp.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

Essentially, you threaten any square into which you can make a melee attack that isn't an unarmed attack or an attack with a whip.
-Hyp.

and this makes sense why? i understand the unarmed strike thing. i can't punch someone five feet away because my arms aren't that long; i would have to "enter my opponent's space," thus provoking an AoO. with a whip, not so much.