D&D 3E/3.5 Is there ANY way to make whips good using WotC-only 3.5 material?

[RainOfSteel]

[..] and my DM would not allow the book I wrote about whips [...]

Do tell.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

as has been discussed, the whip becomes most useful when used by a dual-wielding combatant. i had a ranger who was a whip specialist (with a ligh mace in the off-hand), and it worked like this:

1) ranger trips opponent (no AoO bc of Improved Trip)
2) ranger thwacks opponent on head w/ mace on off-hand attack (almost guaranteed, bc opponent is prone)
3) ranger thwacks opponent on head w/ mace again bc: "If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt."
4) when opponent rises from prone position: AoO... thwack!

that's three thwacks for the price of one!

EDIT
hmmm... re-reading the rules, i realize that to gain the benefits of dual-wielding, you must use a full-round action... can trip be used as one attack in a full-round action? if not, i must've taken some feat that allowed it somehow. i was a neonate back then. i can't remember...

 

[RainOfSteel]

1) ranger trips opponent (no AoO bc of Improved Trip)
2) ranger thwacks opponent on head w/ mace on off-hand attack (almost guaranteed, bc opponent is prone)
3) ranger thwacks opponent on head w/ mace again bc: "If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt."
4) when opponent rises from prone position: AoO... thwack!

I take it that the whip is used in step 1 or 4, because otherwise it doesn't appear in this list of actions.

 

[Legildur]

EDIT
hmmm... re-reading the rules, i realize that to gain the benefits of dual-wielding, you must use a full-round action... can trip be used as one attack in a full-round action? if not, i must've taken some feat that allowed it somehow. i was a neonate back then. i can't remember...

Yes. Trip (as well as disarm and grapple) can "substitute for a melee attack, not an action.... As melee attacks, they can be used... one or more times in a full attack action,..." See footnote 7 of table 8-2 Actions in Combat on p141 of the PHB.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

I take it that the whip is used in step 1 or 4, because otherwise it doesn't appear in this list of actions.

yeah, step 1. the only thing you need it for is the trip bonus... and the style!

conversely, you can also use the AoO from step 4 to trip again, and use your next regular action as a full attack against a prone opponent... this could conceivably repeat forever (or at least until you miss your AoO or make a coup de grace).

 

[Baelzabubba]

Where is #3 coming from.

3) ranger thwacks opponent on head w/ mace again bc: "If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt."

No, you used your attack to trip. Done.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

Where is #3 coming from.

3) ranger thwacks opponent on head w/ mace again bc: "If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt."

No, you used your attack to trip. Done.

step 3 comes from the Improved Trip feat, which states the above. am i missing some rules-lawyering?

 

[pallandrome]

Two words...

Energy Weapon.

 

[Baelzabubba]

Flaming whip

Yes your energy damage applies without being converted to non-lethal.

Just as if you attacked a Fey creature with DR. You don't have to cause weapon damage for the energy damage to apply.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I believe that quoted text comes from the Feat Improved Trip Attack.

IOW, if you have this feat, and you trip your opponent, you get to attack with the same BAB as the attack you used for the trip.