Is there no love for d20 modern?

[hobgoblin]

never forget that a anvil allso have inherent hardness.
hardness thats on such a level that it can take blow after blow that will most likely take down even a 10 level tough hero in short time.

going by the d20m book, iron bars have a hardness of 10, 15 hp and break dc 30. a anvil should atleast equal that as its morly a big slab or iron.

a tough hero get what? d10+con mod for each level? with avarage con and avarage rolls that lands him 50 hp. 5 blows that will not hurt a anvil will send that hero to the ground.

and if we twink him a bit? max con and rolls, plus the talents that grant him hardness? ok so it becomes a bit more insane then. 140 hp and 3/- damage reduction. then he suddenly needs 20 blows of the same damage to down him as the 5 above

it all depends on the dice. but most likely the person will be closer to the avarage then the monster as i dont want to calculate the odds of rolling 10 10's in a row...

 

[The Shaman]

...I try to make it clear that in my game, not every "hit" [successful attack resulting in hit point loss] is a "hit" [actually making contact in-game]. Since hit points represent abstract stuff like luck and stamina among other stuff, it's sometimes just sounds better to say that that bullet which only did 1 point of damage was a near-miss, rather than a graze.

Yep, me too. I've used a ball passing through the character's clothes, bits of plaster flying in the character's eyes, or a cascade of broken glass from a shattered window pelting a character's neck and shoulders. It's damage without the blood loss...

A little dramatic license on the GMs part can really help, especially in a modern setting, where every player is a friggin expert on guns, martial arts, and what REALLY happens in a fistfight/firefight/Indian leg wrestling match.

 

[JPL]

Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.

Me? I am a veteran GM with a bachelor's in English. I don't know squat about real fighting, but I know quite a bit about narrative. In some sorts of games [or movies, or other fiction], a greater degree of attention to real-world tactics, physics, and physiology is called for, but I'm never trying to simulate "real life" in a game --- I'm trying to keep a good story going.

[Rant on]

Because you know what?

#1. Real-world violence generally sucks. As an ex-public defender married to a cop, I understand that now a lot better than I did ten years ago, when I was just another idiot who had never been in a real fight but was a damn nerd expert on the subject. When there are men younger than me, and braver than me, experiencing the real thing in Iraq, I am not gonna sit around rolling dice and thinking that what I'm doing is anything more than storytelling.

#2. Simulationist RPGs generally suck. They suck as simulations, and they suck as RPGs. You cannot simulate fear and adrenaline and confusion, and I've come to think that maybe that's what it's really all about in a real fight. Combine the aforementioned nerd hubris with a supposed emphasis on "realism" and you end up with a supposedly "Smart Hero" accidently sawing his own arm off with a chainsaw.

Keep the emotions real, and the action cinematic.

 

[Vigilance]

Because you know what?

#1. Real-world violence generally sucks.

Agreed. People who talk about "realistic combat" lose me immediately.

I once asked my stepfather, a British Commando and veteran of WWII to describe combat for me and said "You hear a whistling noise, then watch your buddies get blown to pieces by a mortar."

I also think of the small cut-scene at the beginning of Saving Private Ryan where the GI stumbles around for a minute, then picks up his severed arm and wanders away as a closer depiction of "real combat" than likely (I pray) to be found in any game.

If those are even close to what the "real thing" is like, I'll take my illogical hit points anyday.

Chuck

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Agreed. People who talk about "realistic combat" lose me immediately.

I once asked my stepfather, a British Commando and veteran of WWII to describe combat for me and said "You hear a whistling noise, then watch your buddies get blown to pieces by a mortar."

I also think of the small cut-scene at the beginning of Saving Private Ryan where the GI stumbles around for a minute, then picks up his severed arm and wanders away as a closer depiction of "real combat" than likely (I pray) to be found in any game.

If those are even close to what the "real thing" is like, I'll take my illogical hit points anyday.

Chuck

I can agree with that.

Thanks anyway, but I don't want a game that brings back memories of real life I'd prefer remained buried, and I'm sure the other veterans of the military and the police force that I game with would prefer that too.

 

[jaerdaph]

JPL, Chuck, Ralts: Bravo! well said, all!

In the end, it's just a game. It's meant to be fun and an escape from reality.

 

[Vigilance]

JPL, Chuck, Ralts: Bravo! well said, all!

In the end, it's just a game. It's meant to be fun and an escape from reality.

Danke.

There is a subset of modern gamers (of all systems) that demand what I call "hyper realism". The reason I don't just say they demand "realism" is because none of the hyper real folks that I have encountered agree on what constitutes realism and realistic combat.

Usually this involves putting together a string of effects linked to any firearm injury, including massive damage, a chance to be killed outright (even if the damage doesn't kill you) and then blood loss every round.

If I wanted to add that level of hyper realism to my game I'd just have players make an attack roll, and if they hit, say "bang- he's dead", then I'd make my attack rolls and if I hit say "bang- you're dead".

Seems like it would cut out the middleman.

I encountered a whole slew of hyper realists when I released the first edition of Blood and Guts. I am not talking about the fine folks, many of them active duty in the military (including a very helpful PSYOP soldier from MacDill in Tampa) who pointed out factual errors large and small. I did a lot of research, plus had some innate knowledge from conversations with my stepfather but no one is perfect and frankly in some cases I confronted sources who disagreed with one another during research.

These guys made the book better and helped make it a success.

When I say I got a lot of comments from hyper realists I mean comments like "I can't tell if the damage for that TOW missile is incorrect because it doesn't say if its a TOW or a TOW II".

I wish I could watch video of weapons in use and eyeball the amount of damage inflicted.

Chuck

 

[WayneLigon]

I keep on hearing this argument for D&D-style hit points being "it is more than how much dmage you can sustain, it is also luck and experience in taking hits". To be perfectly blunt: that is a 100% lie. - How "lucky" is a door? - How "experenced" is an iron anvil?

Neither lucky nor experienced, which is why they use different damage mechanics than characters do. Since we're being blunt: bother to actually learn the system before you start tearing it down.

Really, if you were sold on any d20 product as 'realistic', if 'realistic' means 'one shot one kill non-cinematic' gameplay, then you were sold a bill of goods. On the other hand, name me one game system that does model such 'realism' that anyone bothers to play on a regular basis. Not even GURPS is that 'realistic'. Seems it's hard to play in a truly realistic setting because people tend to have to make characters faster than in Call of Cthulhu.

 

[Neo]

Why would anone want to play a game based on "realism"? real life is generally pretty mediocre at best most of the time.. People roleplay for the suspension of disbelief and unbelievability it provides them that they dont get in real life.

As for realistic combat.. certainly some things like bleeding, the odd broken limb or possible shock and trauma can add a bit of flavour and fun to the games.. but the realistic nature of *BANG* your dead in place of several rounds of shooting back and forth, repositioning, finding cover, heal that wound and go again..they can keep.

*BANG* your dead is NOT fun

Suspend disbelief and enjoy the intent if not the mechanics, roleplaying is all about the CAN, not the CANNOT, check the real life physics and laws at the door on the way in

 

[Herobizkit]

WHy do people keep asking if D20 Modern is 3.5 compatible?

I asked because I'd hate to think I shelled out 100 bucks on a set of books and then have another edition come out and become the new "official" rules like the original 3.0/3.5 fiasco. That's all.

And sure, I could keep using the older ruleset, but all new releases are updated to 3.5 rules. I'd have to do a LOT of changes to "downgrade" them.