is this a valid tactic for shutting down a caster

[evilbob]

I've always thought the silence spell was pretty powerful, especially since it has been debated and generally thought (on these boards, anyway) that someone caught in the effect of the spell (but not the recipient of the spell) doesn't get a save against it. So I wondered if perhaps this would work:

A cleric gets close to an enemy caster and readies an action to cast silence on himself when the caster casts any spell (wands, scrolls, etc. included). The caster goes, and begins to cast. The cleric's action is triggered and he casts silence on himself. This should ruin the caster's spell. Let's say the caster moves at that point away from the cleric and out of range of the spell (free AoO!).

Next round. The cleric readied an action to interupt the caster, so he goes before the caster. Assuming the cleric can move as fast as the caster, let's say he again moves next to the caster and readies an action to move with the caster where ever he goes. The caster follows and tries to move away from the cleric (AoO again perhaps). The cleric's action is triggered and he moves with the caster. At this point the caster can do one of two things: move again, which will get him further from the cleric but repeat this dance ad naseum, or give up casting (unless he has a Silent spell prepared).

The only way I can think that this trick wouldn't work would be if the caster moves to a place the cleric can't follow, like through a space occupied by an ally of the caster that the cleric can't get around easily. (Or if he'd already cast "fly" or something like that.) Also, obviously if the cleric's speed is much less than the caster, that would eventually get the caster free. (However, an enclosed area could remove this advantage.) And yes, there is the constant penalty that the cleric isn't using any of his own actions but instead ruining another's, but if the caster were particularly powerful this might be a more than fair trade.

Is there any other reason this wouldn't work?


And as a side question, if a caster tried to use a scroll or a wand and was silenced while doing it, would that use up the scroll and/or a charge of the wand, or would that basically stop it from being used so it's not wasted?

 

[irdeggman]

The cleric with the readied action also generates an AoO when he casts his silence spell too.

You can only ready a single move, standard, free or swift action.

You can't ready a move and a standard action. So he can't move up to follow the enemy caster and use his readied action, other than a 5 ft step if he hadn't already moved.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I usually cast Silence on some kind of bolt or arrow, THEN hit the mage.

That way I damage him and can't hear him complain!

By the time he figures out the silence is on the arrowhead, he's screwed.

Some DMs even let me used barbed arrows to do this, which means they take damage in & out before they can rid themselves of the effect.

If you have an ally who is actually an archer build, so much the better.

 

[evilbob]

True on the cleric's initial AoO, but as it's a caster, I figured that's usually not an issue (they usually don't threaten).

And maybe I didn't explain well enough: the cleric casts the spell once, but after that it's just a matter of keeping the caster in the spell (it's minutes/level, so it's not going away anytime soon). So: move action to get close, then ready a move action to follow the caster (skipping the first part if already close). No other standard actions are being taken at that point. That's the beauty; the cleric doesn't have to do anything but keep the caster in range of the spell.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

it's even more powerful

the person casting the silence spell doesn't even have to move.

He can simply ready an action to cast silence on the ground in front of the caster every time the caster tries to cast a spell. Since the spell is cast on an area, not a person, the enemy caster gets no save. He can't avoid things by moving and casting because the readied actions triggers upon casting a spell, not upon moving.

In this method, a low level cleric can shut down a high level spellcaster, unless that spellcaster has Silent Spell. Beguilers, who have both silence and silent spell, are king.

Ken

 

[kigmatzomat]

I usually cast Silence on some kind of bolt or arrow, THEN hit the mage.

The rogue IMC has a button or other small trinket attached to every tanglefoot bag he owns. That way they can be the target of a Silence spell that is almost impossible to remove quickly.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The cleric with the readied action also generates an AoO when he casts his silence spell too.

You don't threaten while casting, and since the enemy's casting was the trigger, when the cleric's readied casting occurs, the enemy does not threaten.

You can't ready a move and a standard action. So he can't move up to follow the enemy caster and use his readied action, other than a 5 ft step if he hadn't already moved.

My understanding was that in the cleric's turn, he was moving, and then readying a move action. If the opponent uses a move action to get away, he provokes an AoO.

The cleric's readied action trigger should be "If the opponent moves more than twenty feet from me, I move" - otherwise, as soon as the opponent starts to move, your action triggers, and you don't know where you should move to to keep him within the spell radius.

-Hyp.

 

[Maldor]

on the first round after you cast i would move back 30ft then i just have to keep moving away then casting you come closer i move then cast plus you most likely move a 20ft and the mage will move at 30ft yes this will give you a AoO but ever a mage can take one hit
but i would consider it a poor mage if he let you get that close in the first place so don't count on this tactic working in open areas

P.S. the guy who shot a silenced arrow head at the mage if it stuck in the mage then the line of effact is broken and he can still cast if it is not in him then he will move or throw it away as "By the time he figures out the silence is on the arrowhead, he's screwed"
if he can't figure out it was the arrow when a arrow was shot at him and then all noise in the world stop then he most likely is not smrat enough to cast 2nd level spells.

 

[evilbob]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure everything you mentioned was covered in the hypothetical above.


Anyone want to take a crack at my second question? Does being interrupted with a silence spell while using a trigger item waste the item or just keep it from being used?

 

[eamon]

I'm curious to see what the fringes of this idea are - if you ready an action to trigger when a spellcaster "starts casting a spell" this essentially means that you wait until the spell caster has started casting his spell, then cast yours. If your readied action - the casting of silence - is to impact the enemy spellcaster, you'll need to have your silence take effect before he's done casting. Although both spells take a standard action, clearly yours must be completed more quickly.

Let's say the opponent spellcaster casts a swift spell - AFAIK, you should still be able to interrupt with a readied action, and should still be able finish before he's done - but that's even less believable.

Does anyone else have a good rationalization to go with the rules?

Also, does anyone else have a rules interpretation / house rule to better match a reasonable reality?

I'm just curious to see where this leads. The rules clearly seem to allow the tactic, though if an item is triggered by verbal command, and the command isn't uttered, I would not let it consume a limited use item.