Is this fair? -- your personal opinion

[ThirdWizard]

Okay, then its just a playstyle thing. What we're used to in play will determine whether we think this is fair or not.

My playstyle says that lever + door = pull. The PC has no real reason to be overly paranoid about levers in rooms that the BBEG didn't think would be accessable to anyone but himself (behind the McGuffin), therefore in my experience, the PCs would have no reason to be paranoid about the lever.

In your games, this is an obviously trapped lever, so taking a few precautions should allow the PCs to pass by. It's mostly there to keep the PCs on their toes and thinking, but it isn't there just to hurt them.

In someone else's game, they might be expected to cast multiple augury for every possible scenario before trying anything. They might think that it is perfectly fair to have it affect them even with 100' rope, and the real way to open the door is in a completely different room by casting a cold based spell into a fire pit.

 

[T. Foster]

Were I a player in such a game I'd never just pull that lever. I'd use whatever magical tricks I had to get the secret door open without pulling the lever (knock, passwall, gaseous form, etc.), then to get as much info as possible about the door and the lever (divination, find traps, detect magic, true seeing, etc.), and if all else failed personally I'd probably just leave with my macguffin (and perhaps come back later armed with more of the above or similar spells/techniques), but if the rest of the party insisted and I was outvoted I'd at least try to find some remote means of pulling the lever (rope, unseen servant, summoned monster, etc.). Since the hypothetical player didn't do any of that, I can't really judge if this situation was "fair" or not. If he did do all of that and still came down to having to roll a natural 20 save to survive, I'd probably declare the situation unfair (maybe not quite "unfair" since no one's forcing him to pull the lever and he can always just walk away, but not really much fun).

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Whether it is fair or not is neither here nor there for me. It is something that for me does not seem to add anything to what's going on. There does not seem to be any "fun" quotient attached to it so it is a not something I would wish to challenge my party with.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[werk]

Okay, then its just a playstyle thing. What we're used to in play will determine whether we think this is fair or not.

My playstyle says that lever + door = pull. The PC has no real reason to be overly paranoid about levers in rooms that the BBEG didn't think would be accessable to anyone but himself (behind the McGuffin), therefore in my experience, the PCs would have no reason to be paranoid about the lever.

In your games, this is an obviously trapped lever, so taking a few precautions should allow the PCs to pass by. It's mostly there to keep the PCs on their toes and thinking, but it isn't there just to hurt them.

In someone else's game, they might be expected to cast multiple augury for every possible scenario before trying anything. They might think that it is perfectly fair to have it affect them even with 100' rope, and the real way to open the door is in a completely different room by casting a cold based spell into a fire pit.

Totally. Like I said in the other thread, I don't know if it's fair, but I've been conditioned to act a certain way as a player, so I guess there are a lot of ways this scenario could be made unfair using the same tactics. If every door in the dungeon had a lever to pull that was untrapped, and this last one was...well, it's misleading to say the least.

But, like I said, if actions such as the last ones you described were necessary to open the door, there should have been some clues alluding to that, even if they were missed. Just given the info in the OP, I would have not grabbed the lever, but that is just due to my previous experiences.

 

[MarkB]

Were I a player in such a game I'd never just pull that lever. I'd use whatever magical tricks I had to get the secret door open without pulling the lever (knock, passwall, gaseous form, etc.), then to get as much info as possible about the door and the lever (divination, find traps, detect magic, true seeing, etc.), and if all else failed personally I'd probably just leave with my macguffin (and perhaps come back later armed with more of the above or similar spells/techniques), but if the rest of the party insisted and I was outvoted I'd at least try to find some remote means of pulling the lever (rope, unseen servant, summoned monster, etc.). Since the hypothetical player didn't do any of that, I can't really judge if this situation was "fair" or not. If he did do all of that and still came down to having to roll a natural 20 save to survive, I'd probably declare the situation unfair (maybe not quite "unfair" since no one's forcing him to pull the lever and he can always just walk away, but not really much fun).

But that's just ridiculous. If you're blowing true seeing spells and even considering walking away rather than pulling a simple, apparently non-trapped lever, then that just blows the importance of levers out of all proportion.

And if you've been burned badly enough, often enough, that the mere sight of a lever triggers a rush of paranoia, then the DM is blowing levers out of all proportion.

99% of the time, a lever should just be a lever. If they're traps so often that you come to rely upon it being the case, then it just becomes a design flaw.

 

[drothgery]

Of course it's not fair. If the party's designated trapfinder doesn't find traps on a lever that will certainly be pulled by all but the most paranoid of characters, it darn well better not have an undetectable sudden death trap on it. They showed reasonable caution by searching for traps. Requiring excessive paranoia to survive just ain't fun.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Other: Varies according to the level of the players. If they're newbies, then I'd say yeah, that's harsh. If they're experienced players, they deserved it.

 

[silentspace]

too bad it wasn't a regular door. or better just a section of floor looking like all others. no traps detected, first person to step on it turns to dust!

 

[Harmon]

Dude,

Okay, so it happened, the GM did something you didn't like, okay.

Make a new character- a monk, near exact to the one that died, give him the same name or a name very close to the other monk.

The next time you come across a lever that you have no clue about, walk away. Don't pull the lever from afar with a rope, don't do anything. Just leave it. Later the GM tells you that there was a billion gold pieces behind the hidden door, and that the rogue missed the Search check by 1 (DC = roll + 1)- just shrug to your GM and say- "my experience with mystery levers drove me to believe that I would be turned to dust."

Keep in mind that the characters are just paper, yes you might miss playing them, yes you will be sad, but in the end- its just paper, imagination, and a whole lot of fun.

Take care, and remember that nothing in life is fair, its a lesson what you do with it is what you learn.

 

[Turanil]

The monk pulls the lever <...> fails the save <and> turns into a pile of fine dust on the floor.

Not only this is unfair, it's also stupid. I guess it's in a kind of "room-monster-treasure" dungeon?