-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Is this good or bad? 1st level party ALREADY has a stronghold...
- Thread starter Bob Aberton
- Start date
Chimera
First Post
Seems to me the DM gave away the store. A party of 1st level characters does this? Even with half of them disabled?
A 1st level Dwarf is dropping robbers "by the score"? Then takes down the leader? Geez, was this leader a 1st level commoner? His followers a gang of coma patients?
As above, the wood would NOT burn that fast, nor would the horse be likely to understand the Command.
Sorry, you blew it.
A 1st level Dwarf is dropping robbers "by the score"? Then takes down the leader? Geez, was this leader a 1st level commoner? His followers a gang of coma patients?
As above, the wood would NOT burn that fast, nor would the horse be likely to understand the Command.
Sorry, you blew it.
drnuncheon
Explorer
Unlike just about everyone else, I think the use of the command spell on the horse was a pretty clever idea. In fact, when a cleric did it in my game, I allowed it to work. Now, the specific command "buck" the horse might not understand - unless you had speak with animals - but the command the cleric used was "giddyup!" The mage on horseback failed the surprise Ride check and fell off - much the same effect.
Getting all "scientific" about the difference between trained response and actual comprehension of the command seems to be to be pointless nitpicking designed to discourage the players from thinking creatively.
J
Getting all "scientific" about the difference between trained response and actual comprehension of the command seems to be to be pointless nitpicking designed to discourage the players from thinking creatively.
J
Akunin
First Post
Bob Aberton said:
Questions of rules aside, this seems like a really bad way to start a 1st-level character campaign. A group of novices sent to recover a "priceless Dwarven artifact"? It seems to me that anyone who could steal such a thing in the first place would have the means of defending it against such a party - or even a party of much higher level.
The party getting 125k gp is outrageous, IMO. As a point of reference, a level 1 encounter nets about 300gp in reward, and a level 2 encounter is worth around 600gp.
Sorry, but the DM blew it on this one - the campaign looks like it's starting down the road to Monty Haul-dom.
Bob Aberton
First Post
To whoever posted the above: First of all,
1. There was only one guy left (the villain), and he was half-dead at the end. He also took damage from falling off his horse.
2. Second, maybe I did blow it with the "command" spell. But, I interprted it different.
3. The dwarf dropign the dudes was due that they were all first level, and the dwarf had the advantage of surprise (and some lucky rolls. A pickaxe does 4* damage on a crit).
4. The stronghold IS NOT PRE-EXISTING!!!. The character are using their 125,000 gps. to hire workers to build it for them.
5. The structure is made of stone, and therefore wouldn't burn
<rant off>
so anyway, until next post...
1. There was only one guy left (the villain), and he was half-dead at the end. He also took damage from falling off his horse.
2. Second, maybe I did blow it with the "command" spell. But, I interprted it different.
3. The dwarf dropign the dudes was due that they were all first level, and the dwarf had the advantage of surprise (and some lucky rolls. A pickaxe does 4* damage on a crit).
4. The stronghold IS NOT PRE-EXISTING!!!. The character are using their 125,000 gps. to hire workers to build it for them.
5. The structure is made of stone, and therefore wouldn't burn
<rant off>
so anyway, until next post...
Bob Aberton
First Post
just got a great idea...
Well anyway, as I stated in my last post, the stronghold is *not* pre-existing. The characters are going to have it built. It is in a wilderness area anyway. However, they will have to get a License to Crenellate, which is a license required to build a castel, approved by the local King/lord/count/big boss man. When they ask for a license, the local landowver is very wary of giving it to them, considering he doesn't want competition. So, he has them turn spies and spy on the trecherous neighbor, who is building an army to conquer the guy the PCs want their license from. So, they will have to go and spy out his schemes, which should take a fairly long time, considering this neighbor has no less than 4 plans in place for causing profitable chaos (profitable for him, that is), and each of those has a back-up plan. Which in turn, each back-up plan has a back-up plan.
Anyway, long story short, this whole stronghold thing is already providing interesting plot hooks, and they haven't even started to build it yet...
....
Well anyway, as I stated in my last post, the stronghold is *not* pre-existing. The characters are going to have it built. It is in a wilderness area anyway. However, they will have to get a License to Crenellate, which is a license required to build a castel, approved by the local King/lord/count/big boss man. When they ask for a license, the local landowver is very wary of giving it to them, considering he doesn't want competition. So, he has them turn spies and spy on the trecherous neighbor, who is building an army to conquer the guy the PCs want their license from. So, they will have to go and spy out his schemes, which should take a fairly long time, considering this neighbor has no less than 4 plans in place for causing profitable chaos (profitable for him, that is), and each of those has a back-up plan. Which in turn, each back-up plan has a back-up plan.
Anyway, long story short, this whole stronghold thing is already providing interesting plot hooks, and they haven't even started to build it yet...
....
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Bob,
Well, reading your post brought two things immediately to mind.
1. A stronghold is a great thing. I wish my PC had one (he's in a 12th-level party now, and the closest we come is standing reservations at the inn!) Story-wise, it gives the PCs someplace to call home, and that's a special thing that can make the campaign much richer. As the DM, it also provides you with plot hooks and a way to drain off the excess money they'll earn now and then. Which brings me to---
2. As another poster said, 125,000gp is a lot of money. If you intend to run a standard game (i.e. using CRs from the Monster Manual as guidelines, etc.) or even a Forgotten Realms-type super-charged campaign, 125,000gp is too much money. You got lucky this time, in that your PCs decided to buy a stronghold. Next time, they might decide that a Holy Avenger or Staff of the Magi is a better idea. Remember that 125,000gp is more than the total net worth of a 13th-level PC, by the standard rules.
Please note that this is not a criticism. I firmly believe that each game is the DM's own, and can follow whatever guidelines he or she wants. But remember that if you are giving out this kind of gold, the information in the various core books, such as CRs, ELs, and everything else goes out the door, because they'll be calculated for standard characters, and yours will be far more powerful than that. It's not bad or wrong, but you'll need to adjust a lot of stuff to take into account the kind of money your PCs are dealing with.
Bottom line: if you want to run a super, super, super powerful campaign, ignore number 2 entirely. If you want to run a more standard campaign, count yourself lucky that the PCs spent their gold on real estate and make a note in your DM's notes to never, ever give that kind of money out again.
Happy playing.
Well, reading your post brought two things immediately to mind.
1. A stronghold is a great thing. I wish my PC had one (he's in a 12th-level party now, and the closest we come is standing reservations at the inn!) Story-wise, it gives the PCs someplace to call home, and that's a special thing that can make the campaign much richer. As the DM, it also provides you with plot hooks and a way to drain off the excess money they'll earn now and then. Which brings me to---
2. As another poster said, 125,000gp is a lot of money. If you intend to run a standard game (i.e. using CRs from the Monster Manual as guidelines, etc.) or even a Forgotten Realms-type super-charged campaign, 125,000gp is too much money. You got lucky this time, in that your PCs decided to buy a stronghold. Next time, they might decide that a Holy Avenger or Staff of the Magi is a better idea. Remember that 125,000gp is more than the total net worth of a 13th-level PC, by the standard rules.
Please note that this is not a criticism. I firmly believe that each game is the DM's own, and can follow whatever guidelines he or she wants. But remember that if you are giving out this kind of gold, the information in the various core books, such as CRs, ELs, and everything else goes out the door, because they'll be calculated for standard characters, and yours will be far more powerful than that. It's not bad or wrong, but you'll need to adjust a lot of stuff to take into account the kind of money your PCs are dealing with.
Bottom line: if you want to run a super, super, super powerful campaign, ignore number 2 entirely. If you want to run a more standard campaign, count yourself lucky that the PCs spent their gold on real estate and make a note in your DM's notes to never, ever give that kind of money out again.
Happy playing.
Doc_Klueless
Doors and Corners
Re: Is this good or bad? 1st level party ALREADY has a stronghold...
I really don't think that this was a bad idea. The 1st-level party having a stronghold, that is. The 125,000 gp is another story and totally dependent on what the group (players and GM want). I see almost endless possibilities with this:
1) defend castle.
2) hire and move in workers.
3) attract people to your fledgling town and deal with the nobles that you're "stealing" the people from.
4) protect them.
5) clear fief of monsters.
6) just happens that your fief is the center of a diabolical plot just because it's out there in the wilderness and the bad guys thought no one would be there to notice.
7) they're "lords" now, so they have to deal with the petty backstabbing, politicing that comes with the "honor."
Those are just off the top of my head. I might even start a campaign this way, some day...
"You are all the embarrassing offspring of noble parents, guildmasters, or other important people. They are too important for the crown to banish you, but not important enough that the crown can't send you to the furthest and most unimproved corner of the realm. Enjoy. You're Lords. You're also poor, untrained, understaffed, and abandoned with no aid in hopes that you'll fail dismally enough that the Crown will have a reason to put your neck on the block and head in a basket."
Awesome. Fantastic. I'm using it!
I really don't think that this was a bad idea. The 1st-level party having a stronghold, that is. The 125,000 gp is another story and totally dependent on what the group (players and GM want). I see almost endless possibilities with this:
1) defend castle.
2) hire and move in workers.
3) attract people to your fledgling town and deal with the nobles that you're "stealing" the people from.
4) protect them.
5) clear fief of monsters.
6) just happens that your fief is the center of a diabolical plot just because it's out there in the wilderness and the bad guys thought no one would be there to notice.
7) they're "lords" now, so they have to deal with the petty backstabbing, politicing that comes with the "honor."
Those are just off the top of my head. I might even start a campaign this way, some day...
"You are all the embarrassing offspring of noble parents, guildmasters, or other important people. They are too important for the crown to banish you, but not important enough that the crown can't send you to the furthest and most unimproved corner of the realm. Enjoy. You're Lords. You're also poor, untrained, understaffed, and abandoned with no aid in hopes that you'll fail dismally enough that the Crown will have a reason to put your neck on the block and head in a basket."
Awesome. Fantastic. I'm using it!
Wolfspider
Explorer
I'll just chime in and say that I'd make the character's lives as unpleasant as possible while they're lords over this property. They simply aren't equipped yet to handle such responsibilities. Take it away from them anyway you can and let them have another opportunity to own such a stronghold when they're higher level.
All DMs make such flubs once in a while, so don't feel bad. However, I do believe it was a misinterpretation of the spell. According to page 153 of the PHB:
Note that the spell fails because the target can't understand the language the command is in, not because it doesn't recognize the particular word. An animal doesn't understand languages because its Intelligence score isn't high enough, although it may recognize certain words. However, the spell is language dependent, not word dependent.
All DMs make such flubs once in a while, so don't feel bad. However, I do believe it was a misinterpretation of the spell. According to page 153 of the PHB:
Note that the spell fails because the target can't understand the language the command is in, not because it doesn't recognize the particular word. An animal doesn't understand languages because its Intelligence score isn't high enough, although it may recognize certain words. However, the spell is language dependent, not word dependent.
Last edited:
Bob Aberton
First Post
Next time, they might decide that a Holy Avenger or Staff of the Magi is a better idea. Remember that 125,000gp is more than the total net worth of a 13th-level PC, by the standard rules.
Well, yeah, I did get lucky. Of course, people don't sell magic items in my world so I wasn't too worried about that. However, that 125,000 gp. was in that treasure hoard because it was ten years worth of robber's ill-gotten gains, so I either had to put iin pitiful amounts of money, and get questions like "if the robbers have been there for ten years, why do they only have 100 gps.?"
I pout it there with a purpose anyway. In the very beginning of my campaign my player (yup, just one) had decided as soon as they got enough money, they would carve themselves a fiefdom. As soon as the player said that, it sent visions of plot hooks dancing through my head. Anyway, I don't think I'll be giving out that much again soon. Or any time for that matter.
Well, yeah, I did get lucky. Of course, people don't sell magic items in my world so I wasn't too worried about that. However, that 125,000 gp. was in that treasure hoard because it was ten years worth of robber's ill-gotten gains, so I either had to put iin pitiful amounts of money, and get questions like "if the robbers have been there for ten years, why do they only have 100 gps.?"
I pout it there with a purpose anyway. In the very beginning of my campaign my player (yup, just one) had decided as soon as they got enough money, they would carve themselves a fiefdom. As soon as the player said that, it sent visions of plot hooks dancing through my head. Anyway, I don't think I'll be giving out that much again soon. Or any time for that matter.
