Is this metagaming?

[apesamongus]

After a party is enhanced due to generous casters (bull's str, prayer, bless, etc) the PCs stats improve. Yay! Now lets say the fighter swings at the NPC and misses, but would've hit with the spell's effects. If he calculates his total "to hit" and I, as DM, say "misses", can he in turn change it because he forgot to add it, or can the party go "Did you remember to add (spell effects)?" Basically, is it up to the player to remember the stats that have changed, or can he get a little help if he absent mindedly forgets?

Having the stats not have their effect because the player forgot would, indeed, be metagaming. Is that what you were asking?

 

[deltadave]

Its definitely the players responsibility, and if you as DM don't want to allow a revised result gently remind them that next time they should add the correct modfiers. It will only take once or twice of that and the players will be very careful to add all their appropriate bonuses.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Having the stats not have their effect because the player forgot would, indeed, be metagaming. Is that what you were asking?

You are correct, but he was actually asking the reverse: if making sure that the stats have their in-game effect by reminding the player of the bonus was metagaming, which it clearly is not, by any definition of the word.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Our bard player has a big 5x8 card with the bonuses from his inspire Courage that he throws on the battle mat when it's in effect. If you miss that big block printing, you're on your own.

 

[Shallown]

I tend to let the players know what there buffs are (since I am a buffing sort of mage) and letthem keep track. We might remind each other if the number comes close to failing but that's it. we very seldom go back and fix a missed hit or a save. Usually not with the back tracking. Heck our dervish forgot he had a frost weapon last session since he just got enhanced. Would have made a big diffeence in the encounter but oh well.

The Gm is given much...much more leeway especially as we approach higher levels. I was Gm last campaign and know how hard it is. It is mostly explained as the GM runs this bad guy once not like the players who run the same person week after week. It is much more forgivable and possible to retro fit considering the Gmis not as familiar with the NPC as we are with the PC's.

If the change actually won't change the ongoing battle then we apply it.

later

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Getting a reminder of your bonuses is not metagaming, its gaming. Metagaming generally refers to using out-of-game knowledge of game rules or information in game, often to gain an advantage. When you use in-game information in-game, like reminding the player of the fact that the fighter has a buff spell up, in an appropriate setting, that's just playing the game, just like you let the players look at their character sheets to determine their Hide check bonus, rather than forcing them to restate it and all its appropriate bonuses from memory in order to get the bonus

I agree. However, for the purposes of keeping the game moving forward I usually only allow these reminders on the player's turn. i.e. so long as the player is still calculating, other players can chime in with "don't forget Inspire Courage" and "remember you have a +2 for flanking." But once a player's turn passes, that's it. Constantly redoing past turns is counterproductive to the flow of combat, IMO.

 

[Christian]

You are correct, but he was actually asking the reverse: if making sure that the stats have their in-game effect by reminding the player of the bonus was metagaming, which it clearly is not, by any definition of the word.

I think that that was his point, RA. He was just making it in a rather roundabout manner.

And yes, that is, strictly speaking, correct. If a player forgets that his character is under the effect of a bless spell, and this causes his character to lose the benefit of the spell, that is definitely metagaming. Corecting the error subsequently is removing the metagaming. The DM refusing to replay three rounds of combat because everyone forgot about the spell/effect is an 'executive decision'.

PrinceZane-in my last game, I remembered some additional damage points for a monster half a round later, and advised the target of the corrected hit point loss. Fortunately for them, it didn't cross any of my player's minds to tell me that it was 'too late'. The monster actually did that much damage, and I initially misinformed the player. It didn't have any effect on subsequent action, so I fixed the problem without disrupting the flow of the game. If I'd remembered too much later, I would have let it go-but as the referee, how late is 'too late' is always my decision.

That said, I try to help the players remember the bonuses they're entitled to. It's only fair, IMO. And they seem to have a terrible time remembering that the bard's inspire courage is active ...

 

[Rystil Arden]

Not letting the fighter go back and fix the mistake that was caught based on forgetting in the real world is metagaming, although technically, the fighter forgetting it and losing the bonus doesn't become a case of metagaming until someone notices the mistake. You actually have to be cognisant of the discrepancy to get into the metagaming realm (i.e. "I know you were supposed to have this bonus, but I refuse to allow you to apply it retroactively because you forgot it"), otherwise, you're still looking at the shadows on the wall and calling them the world.

 

[Agback]

It is not meta-gaming for the players to expect that the rules of the game will be applied as written.

It is not meta-gaming for the players to expect that spells cast in the game world will have the effects in the game world that they reasonably ought to .

It is metagaming for the GM to provide that the rules of the game and the internal logic of the game world be overruled by extraneous considerations. Which goes to show you that meta-gaming is not always bad.

 

[the Jester]

As long as you're consistent it doesn't matter- make a rule and stick to it.

We pretty much play that if you forget a bonus and we move on to the next person's turn, it's too late. But good for the goose is good for the gander; as a dm I often forget monster abilities when running complicated battles, so the pcs get some benefit from it as well. Likewise in the game I play in.