Is this what it feels like to be a forever GM?

[Mini_Mischief]

Hello. Apologies if this has been covered before but I couldn't find anything after a quick search.

I've been in and out of the TTRPG hobby for several years but recently have thrown myself back into it. I've been trying to build a bit of a local community, have regularly hired a community centre to run games and have been running games for newbies and young people at the local library. To try and bring GMs to our events I have created a physical miniature and map library for anyone to use at our events. I'm enjoying the process but there's a feeling that's been stirring in the back of my head and I want to know if it's just me or if there's something I should be doing differently.

I know there has always been an imbalance between players and GMs in this hobby, but what really gets to me is the lack of investment from players. I'm talking about turning up to games with nothing or at most a character sheet. They haven't even purchased and flipped through the rule book for the hobby they say they love. The best analogy I can think of is someone organising a game of Warhammer and being expected to buy, build and paint both armies because the other person wants to play but hasn't bother to invest in their own army. Nobody in that hobby would stand for it, so why do we in this one? Has anyone actually managed to change that dynamic, and if so, how?

Then there's the local game stores. One near me has been trying to find GMs to come into their store and run events for them. When I looked into it I struggled to see how that would actually benefit me as a GM. I was expected to plan the sessions, prepare all the content, bring everything needed to run the game and deliver the whole thing. The stores contribution were some tables and chairs that tbh weren't really set up with TTRPGs in mind, then they'd advertise the event and charge players to come.

I used to think that the term "Forever GM' just meant being the only person willing to run games, but I'm starting to feel it's more than that and that GMs need to essentially prop up the whole of the hobby for everyone else.

Apologies for the rant. I'm not planning on going anywhere. I'm going to keep hiring the hall, running games and trying to build the community. But wanted to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way and wants it to be different. Please tell me it's because the community I'm building is new? I'd love to hear from people who've managed to build a community where the GMs are valued and players are genuinely invested, how did you do this and what does it actually look like in practice.

 

[Mini_Mischief]

I suggest if you want people who appreciate you as a GM first, ask for payment. Even if it is only $5 a seat, you'll know that anyone at your table is there hoping for a better experience than what they expect from sitting at a random table with random people and random expectations. Once they're seated, it's up to you to make them feel if they got their money's worth. Good luck!

In your experience, by charging for a seat do you get a better quality of player?

My unfounded concern about charging for a seat is that it would make the sense of entitlement worse, that a player would just turn up and expect to be entertained without putting any effort in themselves, rather than thinking "I've paid good money for this, I better get my money's worth by putting in extra effort".

I guess in terms of "appreciation" what I'm actually looking for is a reciprocation of effort. Players that go to the extra effort that I am willing to go to as a GM to make the games feel great.

 

[Reynard]

I guess in terms of "appreciation" what I'm actually looking for is a reciprocation of effort. Players that go to the extra effort that I am willing to go to as a GM to make the games feel great.

I think that is simply a rare kind of player and expect you will go through many, many players before you can build a group made up of such folks.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I admire what you are trying to do, but it seems like you are mostly gaming with strangers?

I would absolutely second the « running for strangers is different than running for friends ». I mostly run for friends. And let’s be honest, you kind of have to meet your friends where they are. One friend mostly comes for the socializing aspect. He’s a busy guy who literally makes the world a better place. But he doesn’t know the rules and isn’t really fussed about learning them. Another guy (in a different group) would probably describe himself as a D&D guy and a player. Despite playing for years (and to be fair, when he’s on, he’s on), he’s really bad about retaining information and has to be retaught the rules virtually every session.

Moreover, playing online tends to exacerbate this. There are definitely people who have more difficulty retaining information when it is presented through a screen.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I guess in terms of "appreciation" what I'm actually looking for is a reciprocation of effort. Players that go to the extra effort that I am willing to go to as a GM to make the games feel great.

This is pure 100% speculation on my part, but people tend to value what they have to pay for. So by charging 5$ per seat, you may get players that are more committed to the game generally.

 

[aco175]

There is another thread(s) going around about being the DM at a library and finding players. Then who shows each week and who does not. Then charging money or not. They are good and provide advice. Most are by @talien if you can search by his name.

I think charging a few/five dollars is enough to make people want to play and not as you just donating your services. The problem would be to get it the week before so people commit to showing up or be out a five, otherwise they can still just not show when they said they would and you never know how many people to plan for.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

In your experience, by charging for a seat do you get a better quality of player?

My unfounded concern about charging for a seat is that it would make the sense of entitlement worse, that a player would just turn up and expect to be entertained without putting any effort in themselves, rather than thinking "I've paid good money for this, I better get my money's worth by putting in extra effort".

I guess in terms of "appreciation" what I'm actually looking for is a reciprocation of effort. Players that go to the extra effort that I am willing to go to as a GM to make the games feel great.

I'll start by stating that my experiences do not equate to anyone else's experiences. I shouldn't need to state it, but this is The Internet. Standard rules for logic and consideration need not apply.

Generally speaking, a surcharge didn't buy me "better quality" players. What it did was filter out a lot of problematic players who had little or no investment in games other than showing up for one. I'm not saying I run into a lot of problematic players when I am running what I want. But they appear most often when I was running open tables (Encounters for 4e) or conventions.

I really noticed a difference when I paid to play (as a player) in some online games. I actually had better experiences with other players at the table who were fully invested, considerate, and fun to play with. I wish I could say the same about some of the GMs who thought they should be charging at all, but that's a different conversation altogether.

There's a difference between paying $5 or $10 for a game than paying $25 or more for one. If you're paying top dollar, you're paying for a premium experience. You should be entitled to make sure you're getting your money's worth there. I, personally, would not. But $5 for a seat at the table is basically a "chip in to help" fee. No one is (reasonably) going to expect bells and whistles and a bunch of extras for that kind of money. They know the GM isn't making a career of it, but they're supporting their ability to continue doing this, which they then get to enjoy.

But even for $5, players are more likely to show up ready. They're showing that they are serious enough to invest in it. Just as important, they know they will be sitting with other players who are likely to be just as serious and invested as they are.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

I'd like to make another suggestion: If you want to build a "community" for RPG gamers, start by building more GMs.

Don't just run game for players. Offer to teach others how to be their own GMs. Show them what goes on behind the screen, what you do, and how to do it themselves. Even if they decide it isn't for them, you might give them more insight and appreciation for what they don't know that others do. But without more GMs in any "community", you're just going to end up where a lot of existing ones have always been: a group of players constantly searching for a game that requires someone else to make it happen.

 

[GMMichael]

In order to grow the pool of GMs, we need to show that it is easy and does not require a huge investment of money or time.

I'd like to make another suggestion: If you want to build a "community" for RPG gamers, start by building more GMs.

Step 1: print 20 shirts that say "I'm always right" on front, and "Rule Zero" on the back. Hand them out to any "GM" who completes a game session.

Step 2: run easier games. D&D has one rule book for all the rules, another rule book that tells you how to use those rules, and another one that's basically designed for killing characters. Who wants to invest in that? (Well, besides shareholders.) Start small and easy. And free (like this book).

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Step 1: print 20 shirts that say "I'm always right" on front, and "Rule Zero" on the back. Hand them out to any "GM" who completes a game session.

Step 2: run easier games. D&D has one rule book for all the rules, another rule book that tells you how to use those rules, and another one that's basically designed for killing characters. Who wants to invest in that? (Well, besides shareholders.) Start small and easy. And free (like this book).

Step 3: Prophet!