Is this what you went through with 3rd Edition?

[BendBars/LiftGates]

Oh, wise and mighty EN World community. Your ways are just, and your words are as a sweet ambrosia of truth. I submit to thee a query:

When 3rd Edition came out, I heard a lot of the same complaints from the people I gamed with as I do now with 4th Edition:
"They're dumbing the game down and taking away all the intricacies that I enjoyed."
"It isn't the same game as the one that I love playing."
"The new rules don't support the style of play that I like."
"There's nothing in here except fighting, fighting, fighting."
"This is soulless corporate gimmickery."
"It just doesn't feel like D&D."

They said that they would never switch and that they would only buy the core books in order to understand the rules for the purposes of converting later material. But they had switched over within months, at most.

Maybe because this isn't the edition that I learned D&D on, I don't have such sentimental attachment to 3rd Edition. It's just the usurper being usurped by yet another newcomer.

So, do you think that this furor over 4th Edition is going to turn out to be much the same sort of panic at change and then coming to like the new edition?
If you are proudly anti-4E, what can you tell me to convince me that this time you really mean it?

 

[Psion]

I'll say this much:

I considered every edition up to 3e an improvement over the prior.

I from what I have seen of 4e, I don't see that trend continuing. I see the scope of changes being more drastic than ever before, particularly in the realm of metasetting: what the game is about.

 

[Vempyre]

So, do you think that this furor over 4th Edition is going to turn out to be much the same sort of panic at change and then coming to like the new edition?

Yes to the OP's question before the last.

Ppl like to complain. That will go away soon enough. (Does any significant amount of ppl still really play 2nd edition as a comparison?)

 

[Fobok]

Oh, wise and mighty EN World community. Your ways are just, and your words are as a sweet ambrosia of truth. I submit to thee a query:

When 3rd Edition came out, I heard a lot of the same complaints from the people I gamed with as I do now with 4th Edition:
"They're dumbing the game down and taking away all the intricacies that I enjoyed."
"It isn't the same game as the one that I love playing."
"The new rules don't support the style of play that I like."
"There's nothing in here except fighting, fighting, fighting."
"This is soulless corporate gimmickery."
"It just doesn't feel like D&D."

Yep, I saw all the same complaints with 3e. This particular site was the last refuge of those who looked forward to 3e. Everywhere else, it was doom and gloom and end of the world. (And yes, Psion, I saw people say the exact same thing when 3e came out.)

There will be people who don't like 4e. That's a given, and it's their right. Some won't switch, it's a guarantee. Some might go to True20, or Pathfinder, or Warhammer, or A Song of Ice and Fire.

No matter what, though, this won't be the end of D&D.

 

[Darth Cyric]

Yup, that's exactly right. Everything being said about 4e now was said about 3e in 2000, and about 2e in 1989.

As for 3e in comparison to the earlier editions, every genuine improvement was met with a serious problem, so I, too, don't feel an attachment to 3e. Furthermore, most of 3e's genuine improvements were to things that were merely counterintuitive, but NOT broken, in AD&D (AC, Thac0, ability scores, etc.). The unified XP table looked good on paper when I had heard about it during development, but that didn't matter when, a few months playing, the classes turned out so much more unbalanced than they ever were in AD&D. 3.5 was a band-aid on an artery wound.

I'm keeping an open mind about 4e just like I did about 3e before its release. However, the difference here seems to be that while 3e fixed what was merely counterintuitive about AD&D, 4e is looking to fix what was flat out broken in 3e. Whether it succeeds or not is still to be determined. Who knows, maybe a few months down the road I will be anti-4e like I have been anti-3e for so long.

 

[PeterWeller]

what the game is about.

Playing fantasy heroes and beating the crap out of monsters for sweet stuff?

 

[Dragonblade]

I am a D&D evolutionist. D&D editions are about moving ahead, making the game better. I see 4e as a continuation of that process. I have played 1e, 2e, and 3e, all quite extensively. But none of them perfect. I have had house rules docs in every version. But only in 3e have a been on the verge of burning out so completely that I almost quit the game entirely. In some ways 3e is the best edition to date, but also the worst.

But now with 4e, its like the designers are finally giving me the best version of D&D ever. Its like they took my house rules and made it into the official D&D game. Every mechanic that sucks (level drain, save or die, etc.) has been replaced by mechanics that rock.

For the first time ever in the 20 plus years I have been gaming, I feel like I will be perfectly content to run D&D by the book.

I'm stoked and my group is stoked. Good times ahead.

 

[MacMathan]

In short, yes I saw similar complaints and fears voiced with every new edition that has come out.

This is true of almost all change though no matter what it is.

 

[Surgoshan]

Me: Yeah, I've never played 3rd edition; what's it like?
DM: Well, 3rd edition is D&D for dummies. 3.5 is D&D for Dummies for Dummies.
Me: Vin Diesel plays 3.5.
DM: ?

 

[Ydars]

There is a big contextual difference between the 2E to 3E furore and this one; 2E was SO broken that it had basically lost most of the D&D fanbase. Everyone wanted a new edition because of this but no-one really expected it to be any good. Hence 3E was like the holy grail. Some people did hate it but, subjectively, it seems to me that MANY more people are worried now.

This time, 3.5E is loved by some fans, the numerous problems with it not withstanding and many many people were appalled by the timing of 4E's launch. I am really excited by it but cannot deny that it will probably split the fanbase seriously.

So in summary, 3E sort of brought people back to D&D whereas the goal of 4E seems to be to broaden the appeal of D&D to an entirely new audience in a way that is perhaps a little insensitive to existing players. Hence it is not surprising that many more people appear to be ambivalent about this new edition.