Is this WotC's first high-level commoner?
- Thread starter Henry
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Sejs
First Post
Nope, you get exp for defeating an enemy. Defeating, not just killing. So if you beat an enemy soundly (and get exp for that encounter) and they beat a hasty retreat, then later on they show up again and you defeat them once more, you would get exp for both encounters.
However, you wouldn't get any exp for a thrown fight, so yeah... the above example wouldn't work, but for different reasons than the one you're thinking of. To get exp it has to be an actual, you know.. like.. challenge and stuff.
However, you wouldn't get any exp for a thrown fight, so yeah... the above example wouldn't work, but for different reasons than the one you're thinking of. To get exp it has to be an actual, you know.. like.. challenge and stuff.
painandgreed
First Post
Here's how I'd explain it, but I have strange ideas on NPCs and experience. Basically, I give everybody, PCs included, "Daily XP' which is experience for the trivial stuff in life. Experience for accomplishing the goal of living from one day and into the next. It amounts to about 1/2 an XP per day. This makes it easy to figure out that the 45 year old blacksmith or farmer that is sitting in the in is probalby 3rd level and gives a good indication of what his skill levels are. If they're movers and shakers of the area like the head of the town guard or local leader, they may get an experience point per day (This is what I give PCs, which helps with the "I'm 50 XP short of next level so i go kill rats in the sewer problem. Instead they just train for two months and they get the XP.), making him 5th level. This would put a 300 year old elf who is such a leader at about 15th level with my system. That explains how they got the experience.
As for being a 17th level commoner, I figure that classes are a matter of training. The person who goes and gets a teacher who shows them new styles and ways of using weapons and armor ends up being a fighter. The guy who just likes to fight and never gets formal training ends up as a Warrior. RW expample would be somebody who goes to Harvard verus a no-name local college. They both end up with masters degrees but one had higher requirements, spend more effort and money in the training. A harvard student would be a different "class" than your unacredited college student. Somebody who makes 17th level commoner simply never got training in any class. They spent all their time doing normal stuff and although they may have excelled and done some heroic things, they never sought to be anything more, never took an interest in being any othe class, and simply went back to their trades when it was all said and done.
As for being a 17th level commoner, I figure that classes are a matter of training. The person who goes and gets a teacher who shows them new styles and ways of using weapons and armor ends up being a fighter. The guy who just likes to fight and never gets formal training ends up as a Warrior. RW expample would be somebody who goes to Harvard verus a no-name local college. They both end up with masters degrees but one had higher requirements, spend more effort and money in the training. A harvard student would be a different "class" than your unacredited college student. Somebody who makes 17th level commoner simply never got training in any class. They spent all their time doing normal stuff and although they may have excelled and done some heroic things, they never sought to be anything more, never took an interest in being any othe class, and simply went back to their trades when it was all said and done.
s/LaSH
First Post
Well, a 17th level elf commoner's going to have, what, 20hp? That's not much for a master chef. I'm somewhat familiar with the demands of the culinary calling (my brother has a certificate saying he's a chef - the type of certificate that gets you past US immigration controls), and it's not for the faint-hearted (he has the scars and tales to prove it). A few hundred years of working in a kitchen would probably toughen you up to at least that level.
It seems vaguely reasonable to me, actually...
It seems vaguely reasonable to me, actually...
Turjan
Explorer
Hmm... it's a bit complicated if you think this through. Though, with D&D as a game, it's sometimes better not to think things through 
.
I can understand the reasoning behind the elven cook reaching 17th level. But would this not result in the situation that the average elven commoner should be around 10th level?
Another question: Should she not be an expert? This would somehow circumvent this commoner problem altogether.
The problem that getting better in mundane tasks is always connected to getting better in weapon attacks shows D&D's roots in wargames. It does not make sense. However, it's more of a logical problem than a practical one.
Let's see when our 17th level commoner reaches epic levels
. Ah, an epic commoner - that would be something 
!
.I can understand the reasoning behind the elven cook reaching 17th level. But would this not result in the situation that the average elven commoner should be around 10th level?
Another question: Should she not be an expert? This would somehow circumvent this commoner problem altogether.
The problem that getting better in mundane tasks is always connected to getting better in weapon attacks shows D&D's roots in wargames. It does not make sense. However, it's more of a logical problem than a practical one.
Let's see when our 17th level commoner reaches epic levels
. Ah, an epic commoner - that would be something !
Hellcow
Adventurer
Well, first is the issue of whether you believe that every character in the world has unlimited potential -- which, as I've said, I don't. Could every classical composer rival Beethoven if he just tried hard enough?Turjan said:
Second is the question of how devoted the elf in question is to his task. Does the elf farmer strive every day to improve his technique, to approach farming in new ways? If so, then yes, I'd say after a few centuries he should be pretty good at it. If he says "It's a field, I've got a hoe, what I did yesterday worked just fine, I'm going to do it again today" -- I'd be happy saying he sits at his current level. Most likely, the bulk of the low-level population are people who have reached a level where they can perform their daily work and are no longer trying to advance.
In the case of this chef, I'm saying that a) she has an amazing innate talent; and b) she has spent centuries honing that talent and challenging herself.
Why? It would give her three times as many skills, better attack bonuses, better saving throws, and better weapon and armor proficiencies. Odd martial arts movies aside, why does a chef need any of these? She needs one thing to be an expert in her field: Profession (cook), and Profession is a class skill for commoners. That leaves her with half her skill points -- not counting any bonus points from intelligence - to spread between other Profession or Craft skills, other Commoner Skills, Knowledge skills if she decides to pick up the Education feat along the way (and she has six feats to do so), and cross-class skills.Turjan said:
Certainly, you can make the perfect innkeeper, who has Knowledge (local), Sense Motive, Diplomacy, etc in addition to his Profession skills. But a commoner doesn't have to be a farmer: they are simply people who have no combat training and have focused on a few skills. Craft and Profession are all most common-folk need to do their jobs... and commoners get them both.
With all that said, I completely agree with you -- it's really best just not to think about it!
Hmm... Now I'm seeing a campaign where the players are told "You are going to be this world's greatest heroes. You are the last hope against the forces of darkness. Use a 32-point build, and 30 levels... all of commoner."Turjan said:Let's see when our 17th level commoner reaches epic levels
"Taste my flaming barbeque fork of basting, spawn of evil!"
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Evilhalfling
Adventurer
My concept of non violent NPC levels is that everyone gets xp for noncombat
problems that involve risk- getting fired, accidently poisoning the local lord and getting blackballed from society etc. but this exp only amounts to cr 1 encounters, perhaps in multiples. This maxes out NPC levels at 9th, where cr 1 xp=0. This is espcially true for nobles, when many of their poltical activites involve risk.
I had a concept for 16th level commoner - but eventually he multiclassed into rogue, He was a sausgae-n-a-bun salesman, and functionally retarded. At somepoint he deceided that people were ideal to make sausages out of.
He has become a serial killer that stalks the streets.
He was orginally concived of as too independent and unskilled to have gained class levels - but this logic broke down, after killing enough people, he would have picked up sneak attack and more skills.
Last time he was encountered a PC led a demon into him, hoping he would distract it. The demon and sausageman haven't been seen since.
problems that involve risk- getting fired, accidently poisoning the local lord and getting blackballed from society etc. but this exp only amounts to cr 1 encounters, perhaps in multiples. This maxes out NPC levels at 9th, where cr 1 xp=0. This is espcially true for nobles, when many of their poltical activites involve risk.
I had a concept for 16th level commoner - but eventually he multiclassed into rogue, He was a sausgae-n-a-bun salesman, and functionally retarded. At somepoint he deceided that people were ideal to make sausages out of.
He has become a serial killer that stalks the streets.
He was orginally concived of as too independent and unskilled to have gained class levels - but this logic broke down, after killing enough people, he would have picked up sneak attack and more skills.
Last time he was encountered a PC led a demon into him, hoping he would distract it. The demon and sausageman haven't been seen since.
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