Is too small of a sandbox the same as railroading?

[ExploderWizard]

I would say, let the world react as it would react. In some cases, a bar fight. In other cases, just have the dwarves toss them in the drunk tank for a week.


RC

This could work.


Or......................

Give them exactly what they want. Let them get the dwarves talking at length about thier proud clan lineage. Make a challenge out of the PC's trying to extricate themselves from the most dreaded monologue to be possibly inflicted on a creature for hundreds of miles.

Since it was the PC's who requested it, ending the conversation without being rude should be difficult and rude nosy guests usually get taught a lesson.

 

[Raven Crowking]

In a sandbox game, the only "lesson" the players need to learn (and may be trying to detemine if true) is that the world will react in an appropriate way to their actions. The more appropriately the world reacts, the easier it is to plan actions in that world.

A week in the drunk tank is narrated in about 1-2 minutes, tops, unless the PCs try to pick fights. And then there is solitary. Takes about 30 seconds to narrate, and you can get on with the game.

If the PCs have been particularly troublesome to the town, fine them for it. Otherwise, they get released (and possibly told to leave town).

Of course, the above is only true if the PCs cause trouble in town, which is not a foregone conclusion. There are many other reasons the players might want to have their characters go to the dwarven town.

RC

 

[TerraDave]

two points...

1 - no, you're not railroading.

2 - your players sound like jerks.

" "

 

[WalterKovacs]

This could work.


Or......................

Give them exactly what they want. Let them get the dwarves talking at length about thier proud clan lineage. Make a challenge out of the PC's trying to extricate themselves from the most dreaded monologue to be possibly inflicted on a creature for hundreds of miles.

Since it was the PC's who requested it, ending the conversation without being rude should be difficult and rude nosy guests usually get taught a lesson.

Passive Agressive is always the right response to PCs not behaving appropriately

 

[rexartur]

As I only run modules (and adventure paths, etc.) I can't provide too much input here. That being said I have had parties "go left" in spite of all signs pointing right. I run the game as slightly immersive, in that I have no problem informing the group of players when something is going to take extra time, interrupt the flow, etc. and we have lots of table chatter (but everyone has a good time).
I try to allow their characters to go where they will and do what they want but I usually do not interrupt the timeline of the story, so events occur whether they take part in them or not. In other words I try to have both their actions and inactions have repercussions (for good or ill).
The other thing I do when they decide to take the longer overland route so they can save that 50gp on ferry travel (which would have allowed red-line travel to the next scene, for instance) is remind them that the wild lands they set out on are not regularly patrolled - which is me-as-DM-speak for random encounters; horrible, unscaled random encounters.
Travel where you will.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Passive Agressive is always the right response to PCs not behaving appropriately

If the player's interest in the dwarves is sincere then they get a lot of what they want. If they are just trying to screw with the DM oh well....

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I personally use the 3 R's of sandboxing
Remind
Retool
Redistribute

Remind: The players don't bite on one of the few plots that are going on in the world... the plot gets "worse" the small band of goblins attacking the town are now IN the town, pilaging, making merry with the women and cutting off food from the peasants.
Still ignoring? Your character gets an urgent letter from thier Mom/Brother/Friend/Clergy "Please help us, goblins have killed (insert someone important to the character here)"

Retool: So here it is, you spent all day drawing dungeon maps and writing up encounters for the big 3 level spanning dungeon of deathtraps and doom... and the players feel they'd rather go to the town of Merrymead because there's a "miss underdark" contest that they just can't miss...
Luckily there's a forest in the way... a forest whose cleared path looks strangely similar to the room layout of your dungeon... and has the same monsters... and traps and death...

Redistribute: So... the PCs ignored your plot hooks, went arround the forest that was in their way, don't care about their friends and family dying at the hands of your plot, and just want to go on their merry way toward the land of milk and honey? Well, who says that the same problems aren't happening there?

 

[Raven Crowking]

"Remind" is the only one I would go with, personally.

IMHO, the option to do nothing is what makes the decision to do something meaningful.

YMMV.


RC

 

[Blackbrrd]

I think sandbox types of games work best if you start prodding the players and they can react to it whatever way they want. It's been suggested earlier in this thread and I think it was good advice.

The other good advice I picked up in this thread is the one with the players coming up with the start of the story. In other words, the player presenting what the character has heard. It doesn't need to be true, so you can spin it whatever way you want.

Some reasons the players aren't taking your bait is that you are saying it's a 8 pound cod instead of saying they can barely hold onto their fishing pole. In other words, obfuscate your plot some more?

 

[Cadfan]

1. Player buy-in. Get them to agree before the game starts that the game will have a particular premise. Allow them to make suggestions on the premise, or allow them to suggest modifications. If you bought the ticket on purpose, there isn't much room to complain about the train's destination.

2. Railroad at the top, sandbox below. Top level choices are things like who the characters are, what they're trying to do in the world, what grand plots they're dealing with, etc. Maybe its predestined that everyone in the party is a conscript in the king's army (you got player buy-in, so they're cool with this, right?), but once they're conscripted, trained, and deployed to a remote island to rally a militia and secure the area against the possible invasion of the hobgoblin hordes, they have complete freedom to do so in whatever manner they like. This is good because it gives the players a lot of freedom on moment by moment decisions, but keeps the plot in a bounded area that you can actually prepare ahead of time.

3. Sandbox at the top level, railroad beneath. Maybe the players can choose to do whatever they like, but once they're committed things get far more directed. For example, maybe there are a dozen plot hooks available, but once the players bite on guarding the caravan, they get in a very difficult to escape vendetta with a guild of assassins. This works well because you can dishonestly (but plausibly) blame the fact that the game's a railroad on your player's decisions. After all, you're just running the world logically, right? No one on these forums, or often in real life, will ever count this sort of game as a railroad, even though it kind of is, because its a "natural" railroad.

4. Just railroad the heck out of them and call it a night. But do it with something weird and hilarious. Like a teleporting goblin who keeps popping in, attacking them, and disappearing when he's wounded only to return over and over again. He's really, really mad about something, and he pops up at the most inappropriate times. He's completely ineffectual in combat, but every time the PCs flirt with a girl or try to be serious, they've got a screaming, raging goblin biting at their legs and accusing them of something involving the goblin's sister and a word that no one, not even those proficient in goblinese, can quite translate. This sort of railroad can happen anywhere, and can follow them no matter where they go. But if the players find it entertaining, they won't care.

5. If nothing you do entertains them, quit. It doesn't mean that the fault is yours. But there's no purpose in trying if they're not going to meet you halfway.