Is WoTC even relevant to you anymore?

[der_kluge]

Oh good, it's been at least a couple of threads since I've seen this chestnut.

Please provide examples of such books. Most of the books I've seen WotC release are things like "Complete Warrior", "Complete Mage" and "Tome of Magic". If you can't make your point without hyperbole, perhaps it's because it's not a valid point.

If it is valid, please try again.

It's not one book - it's all the unnecessary books taken as a whole. Don't be so literal.

 

[bowbe]

QFT.

It is a characteristic of 4E threads that at least 50% of the posters forget/choose to ignore that WotC is a business, and if they don't make money, they're out of business.

Not exactly.

Wizards manages tons of other brands. If they don't make money on D&D they aren't exactly done for. Possibly Wizards loses the current design staff at most and control of D&D as a WOTC published product at worst. Worst case scenario being Hasbro actually steps in and takes D&D away from Wizards and hands it over to another entity (my guess would be a video game developer with a track record of success to produce the printed books and manage the rules). That isn't so likely to happen either no matter if 4ed tanks or is a butt nekkid success.

So say they lose D&D, so what?

They Still Have Star Wars
The Star Wars license and miniatures alone are enough to keep them in biscuits and gravy for the long haul. With the eventual release of the Star Wars TV show(s) and their inevitable game tie ins they have another solid decade or longer of hobby games goodness to rely on. Despite the cut that Lucas LTD takes (heh... Lucas LTD takes it from Hasbro too) its still well enough $$ to keep WOTCs doors open.

With the success of Transformers film, Hasbro is now looking more seriously than ever at its own properties and their money making potential, even considering entering the BIG media entertainment industry of Hollywood. They are talking actually producing BIG BUDGET movies and are flush with cash from Transformers toy sales to be able to actually pull it off.

Sure the last 2 D&D licensed flicks sucked but with big daddy Hasbro in the corner its only a matter of time before a "Good" D&D movie comes out that makes everyone forget the old ones. Hence, D&D, no matter what edition or what fales assumptions about D&Ds importance to the survival of WOTC's are made here or on any other message board we can all pretty much rest assured its here to stay. If a new edition tanks, the current "old guard" will be unemployed and new developers brought on board to resuscitate the line. THAT my fiends is business.

Add to that their avalon hill line, and all the pennies on the dollar they get from every mother's son that creates a new "collectible card game" and WOTC is going nowhere... its just a slim possibility that they go nowhere without D&D.

Case

 

[Steel_Wind]

I think a far more relevant question is:

"Am I still relevant to WotC?"

This is the most insightful comment on this thread, imo.

If by "I" you mean "hardcore ENworlder" I am not sure what the answer to that question is. I would like to think that the mere presence of WotC staff on these forums is an indication that we are still "relevant" to WotC, but I don't think that is always true. I think the answer is "it depends".

I recall an interview with Erik Mona on Mortality Radio about three years back. I think at the time his take on the hardcore gamer was that they were extremely hard to please, critical to a fault and a pain in the ass to deal with.... but that their presence and support gave you a guaranteed minimum sales base. The guaranteed sales base permitted you to do certain things on a business level with some wiggle room. Without that guaranteed sales base, the risk inherent in your business venture goes up significantly.

So - are we relevant to WotC's business of selling core rulebooks? No. I honestly don't think we are relevant to them at all when it comes to that. That's a product that is mass marketed - and lifestyle gamers are not the mass market.

But in the bigger scope, in terms of introducing new gamers to the hobby, maintaining a minimum sales level to keep FLGS's open - and to buy non-core rule products at a level that ensures a certain level of profit, yes, I think we remain relevant.

Taken for granted perhaps - but relevant.

The problem is - when it comes to new editions and new business models designed to reach new customers - our relevance is minimal.

In the end, we are not the engine that drives this car - we are merely the seat belt that will save their ass should it crash.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think that anyone thinking that D&D would be made better by having fewer books is headed for inevitable disappointment. That just isn't an option; they simply cannot/will not leave that money on the table, and any realistic person shouldn't expect them to.

The question then becomes, how can we make this game workable within that context? How do we sell X number of hardback books and still give the DM the ability to easily use them ALL? I don't know the answer to that question. For me, part of the answer is electronic tools.

E-Tools was a mixed bag at best, but at its heart (and even in its current form) it allows me to use most of my D&D books in an easy way; I know more or less what feats/classes/spells do from the brief descriptions in the program, and if I need the full text I look it up - meaning I don't need to refer to the physical books all that much.

WoTC needs better tools that will do the same thing (and other things too), and not only electronically (though a large portion of gamers are PC-enaabled; Scott Rouse - do you have info about the percentage of regular gamers who have PC's that they could theoretically use in game prep, and the % of those who do that actually prep via PC?)

 

[Fifth Element]

It's not one book - it's all the unnecessary books taken as a whole. Don't be so literal.

"Unnecessary" is purely your opinion, and given that the books sold well (or else they would have stopped publishing them after the first few), it seems that many people do not agree.

You hurt your position when you try to make a point with ridiculous hyperbole. Taking all the books together actually runs contrary to your assertion, one of a ridiculously-specialized book that applies only to a very, very narrow character concept. The Complete books, taken as a whole, provide something for everyone, not just a half-halfling vampire lich ranger/assassin/archmage, blah blah blah.

 

[Fifth Element]

Not exactly.

Wizards manages tons of other brands. If they don't make money on D&D they aren't exactly done for. Possibly Wizards loses the current design staff at most and control of D&D as a WOTC published product at worst.

Yes, that's true. But it does nothing to detract from the fact that if Wizards does not make money on D&D, they will cease to publish D&D. Making money on Star Wars has nothing to do with D&D 4E.

 

[Khairn]

I think a far more relevant question is:

"I'm I still relevant to WotC?"

Very true. And my answer to that is no, I do not believe I have any relevance to WotC. None of their recent decisions or initiatives help me run my games, help my players, or provide either interesting crunch or imaginative fluff. In the last 4+ months the only think of interest I've seen from WotC is the eventual (who knows when) creation of a board game portal on Gleemax.

WotC seems determined to head in a direction that takes them further and further away from what my gaming group is looking for.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I do not believe I have any relevance to WotC...WotC seems determined to head in a direction that takes them further and further away from what my gaming group is looking for.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant with my earlier comment about being out of their primary/target market; I think you described it better, though. They're on a completely different path from me. I wish them well of it, but I'm not interested in going that direction.

 

[Moggthegob]

I only buy wizards and a few adventures from Paizo,who for a while i considered to be an extension of wizards, and I bought castles and Crusades because a recomendation from Mr. Gygax on these boeards. No offenseb ut totally not my cup of tea. I liek how its detailed. I liek that it takes a long time to make a high level character. It should. You are reflecting years of experience and trying to sum it up very quickly.

So I will continue to support wizards and the current edition tho I will be very hesitant to buy 4e for a while becus of how heavily investedI am into 3e

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

This is a joke right? WotC goes down, so does the hobby at large

I guess that depends on what you mean by "at large." I don't think the hobby would disappear. As long as there's demand, there will be a supply to fill it, at whatever level the market can sustain. The disappearance of WotC and the contraction of the market would be something of a non-event, for me; it would have almost no effect on my gaming or my purchases. As I've mentioned, I'm already outside the "mainstream" market defined by WotC. I'm already in the contracted, "hobbyist" RPG scenario.