Isn't Success in D&D Dependent Upon Murder?

[Harmon]

Not sure how to start this, but...

I have been respnsible for thousands perhaps billions of deaths in gaming as a GM and a Player (there were nukes involved), so I get it, but am I a murderer now? Not for that reason.

Presently we are in a campaign were a village is threatened by a group of stone giants, the stone giants are threatened by a pleague brought to them by a group of adventurers that want to get into a tomb and want to kill the giants. I have taken it upon myself to step in between, keep the peace, and discover why the giants are there, as well as remove the diseases from the giants. I have told the giants not to attack the village or I will have to defend the village and told the villagers that they need to keep their distance from the giants, the other adventurers know that I will defend who ever is attacked.

My reasoning- the giants are miners, they are not evil, they are trying to mine an ore to save their families from a band of Fire Giants. The villagers are just scared. The adventurers are just greedy, and seeking fame. I just want a great role playing experience.

Am I a diplomate for doing this? Hell no, I can't talk my way into a taco dinner at Taco Bell with ten bucks, but its the experience, its the entertainment course I chose.

I hope that helps a little.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

It is also tacitly racist. While there are exceptions to the rule, the vast majority of settings are clearly taken from Western Europe. Further, the setting is designed so as a result of the available races and nationalities, most protagonists – PCs and NPCs – are male and white, while villains are not. For example, the drow are a matriarchal race of black skinned people.

Not to mention how inherently heightist the game is, since 80% of the allowable races are shorter than humankind, and a preponderance of the typical "evil doers" you face are 7' tall or taller.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Not to mention how inherently heightist the game is, since 80% of the allowable races are shorter than humankind, and a preponderance of the typical "evil doers" you face are 7' tall or taller.

Don't even get me started on how classist the game is.

 

[Shadeydm]

Interesting thread but I believe that trying to apply real world morality to a DnD world is doomed exercise.

 

[gizmo33]

(Shrugs) Looking at it objectively, humanity is God’s failure. No, I’m not joking.

You know, describing something as objective doesn't make it so. Your statement about failure is clearly irrational - there's no basis on which to make a comparison about what success is.

The problem that I think DMs need to understand is that it's a really nasty environment to be having expectations from a bunch of descendants of monkeys. People and players do the best that they can with the scanty information they have - in a situation where a bunch of things are trying to kill you all of the time.

Besides, there's always the afterlife. Bemoaning the deaths of creatures seems to ignore the obvious metaphysical truth that death is really just a transition to another plane of existence. Creatures wind up getting what they deserve in the afterlife, which is a situation completely out of the hands of the PCs. Let the Gods sort 'em out, as they say, and if the gods have an issue with it I'm sure they can burn a few spells to show up on the Prime and explain how they think it's supposed to work.

 

[thedungeondelver]

This(N S F W!) is what happens when you apply DUNGEONS & DRAGONS morality to the real world. I think Costikyan is having a bitlot of fun at people who try to drag real world morality in to RPGs here; taking the long view, VIOLENCE, THE RPG is a very sobering look at doing just that.

 

[Mallus]

The worlds described and designed by D&D are at best morally vacuous.

Well said!

But it amuses me to no end to watch people argue, at enormous length and often with a dizzying array of rhetorical hoo-ha, otherwise.

A moral vacuum is something we strive for in my CITY campaign. Along with monkeys. And ninja ninjae.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

And ninja.

You've only got one?

 

[Mallus]

You've only got one?

Fixed... thanks.

 

[NCSUCodeMonkey]

The point is, in order to get the rewards of playing the game well (namely XP and treasure), monsters must usually be dead, cremated, and ashes scattered to the wind atop the highest peak in sight by sundown.

Well...yeah? I mean, it is a game primarily about killing things and taking their stuff. If you're trying to suggest that the violent themes present in most D&D games is somehow morally questionable, I'll point to my first assertion that it's a game. I've only seen D&D be morally disturbing when people seem to personally take undue pleasure in heinous acts carried out in game. And those people bothered me anyway, independent of the game itself.