Isolation of the Dark Sun multiverse

[D.Shaffer]

Well, the DS metaplot has always had more than its fair share of world-shaking, canon-altering events, so why stop now? The arisal of a new form of supernatural energy would make for a pretty cool campaign arc. It might be interesting to see how something like incarnum fits into DS.

Hmm. Being a big fan of Incarnum, I'd like to see how people fit it into DS. Totemist melds, especially, would be interesting to see.

 

[Mark Hope]

Hmm. Being a big fan of Incarnum, I'd like to see how people fit it into DS. Totemist melds, especially, would be interesting to see.

One poster over at the WotC boards has been using the system to model lifeshaping. I don't know how it works in play, but I do recall it being mentioned in that context. And Shadow Magic from the ToM is an obvious fit for magic from the Black - I plan to try that out when my next set of DS games get going.

 

[Aaron L]

That's still present, in the form of the Plane of Shadow connecting multiple cosmologies. For what it's worth, I think that's a much more elegant and usable solution than spelljaming or the Great Wheel (IMO, a distinct Greyhawkism) uniting all settings if you actually want characters to be able to travel to different settings.

Although I also feel that each setting having it's own cosmology is a feature, not a bug. It's a good thing as it allows the setting to be able to set itself apart more in terms of feel and tone. Although folks like Shemeska might disagree, I've never thought that Planescape was a good one size fits all cosmology. It's good as a setting in and of itself (with the exception of the cant--bleagh) but that's where it's utility ends, IMO.

Let me add a hearty "me too" to everything you just said. With the way things are set up in 3E, you can have your cake and eat it too, with each setting having it's own cosmology (dare I say having it's own physical laws without being shackled to one model of magic and reality?) while still having the ability to travel between cosmologies and settings, realities and universes, via the Shadow or Deep Ethereal.


The change of the Realms cosmology into something unique to itself is a blessing long overdue. The Realms don't deserve to be shoehorned into Greyhawk's cosmology anymore than Dark Sun or Eberron do. Cramming different worlds into one cosmology does such a disservice to all the settings involved in so many ways. The people who go on and on about how "drastically altered" settings have become in 3E by gaining their own separate cosmologies, are, I dare say, going very far overboard, and ignoring the benefits gained with separate cosmologies because of a dogmatic "it was this way before so it should always be this way" approach.

 

[Roman]

Hmm, another somewhat related 'cosmological' question has popped into my mind and I just could not resist asking about it:

What is the relationship between Prime Material Planes and Crystal Spheres? Is it the case, that one Prime Material Plane contains all the Crystal Spheres or is it the case that each Crystal Sphere is actually a Prime Material Plane of its own? Also, what lies in-between the Crystal Spheres? Essentially, I am trying to perceive how do Crystal Spheres mesh with the Planes...

 

[Mark Hope]

Hmm, another somewhat related 'cosmological' question has popped into my mind and I just could not resist asking about it:

What is the relationship between Prime Material Planes and Crystal Spheres? Is it the case, that one Prime Material Plane contains all the Crystal Spheres or is it the case that each Crystal Sphere is actually a Prime Material Plane of its own? Also, what lies in-between the Crystal Spheres? Essentially, I am trying to perceive how do Crystal Spheres mesh with the Planes...

Well, the initial idea was that the Prime Material Plane contained all the Crystal Spheres. However, this was further developed by the suggestion that each Crystal Sphere had its own set of "cosmic laws", making each one somewhat like a prime plane in its own right. Either way, all the Crystal Spheres floated in a super-cosmic material called phlogiston - a radiant, energetic gas-like material that was highly flammable, and had a number of special properties besides.

 

[Roman]

I see. I cannot say I am particularly fond of spelljamming, I just dislike the flavor of it, but I wanted to perceive how it fits into the original cosmology, so thanks for clearing that up. Of course, now that each setting has its own cosmology separate from the Great Wheel, the spelljamming notions collapse too, or at least probably have to be modified so that phlogiston is another transitive plane connecting the various Prime Material Planes together.

 

[Mark Hope]

I see. I cannot say I am particularly fond of spelljamming, I just dislike the flavor of it, but I wanted to perceive how it fits into the original cosmology, so thanks for clearing that up. Of course, now that each setting has its own cosmology separate from the Great Wheel, the spelljamming notions collapse too, or at least probably have to be modified so that phlogiston is another transitive plane connecting the various Prime Material Planes together.

I incorporated Spelljammer into my homebrew games, so it fit quite well. But I don't think it works so well when crammed together with all the published settings. For DS I ditch all non-Athasian cosmologies entirely, Spelljammer being no exception.

 

[Roman]

For DS I ditch all non-Athasian cosmologies entirely, Spelljammer being no exception.

I think this is the most sensible solution and I would probably do the same if I ran a DS game. For the sake of history and consistency, however, I would keep the connections that have already been mentioned as certainly in existence, but they would not connect to any greater cosmology, but merely to a region of DS cosmology that is otherwise inaccessible/difficult to access.

As to spelljammer, I have never actually played it, but from what I heard it has things like 'giant space hamsters' and similar stuff. Now, I recognize that this is a fantasy game with a lot of made-up stuff and that every game sometimes needs comic relief, but 'giant space hamsters' and other such contraptions strike me as too, well, 'silly' for my taste. I can understand why it may appeal to some, but it is just not for me.

 

[Mark Hope]

I think this is the most sensible solution and I would probably do the same if I ran a DS game. For the sake of history and consistency, however, I would keep the connections that have already been mentioned as certainly in existence, but they would not connect to any greater cosmology, but merely to a region of DS cosmology that is otherwise inaccessible/difficult to access.

Exactly. We took that precise approach when developing the planar material in Terrors of the Dead Lands and just called it "The Deep". Want it to actually be the Outer Planes? No problem. Rather use it to represent the Far Realm? Go for it. Need a parallel universe of cosmic cheesemongers? Get stuck in.

As to spelljammer, I have never actually played it, but from what I heard it has things like 'giant space hamsters' and similar stuff. Now, I recognize that this is a fantasy game with a lot of made-up stuff and that every game sometimes needs comic relief, but 'giant space hamsters' and other such contraptions strike me as too, well, 'silly' for my taste. I can understand why it may appeal to some, but it is just not for me.

It was an odd conglomeration of awesome, epic ideas and utterly daft silliness. The space hamsters weren't anywhere near as odd as the penguin-people who rode about the place on winged pigs, mind you... That said, you could fairly easily snip out the silly bits and have a rather spiffy "etherspace" style fantasy setting (which is how we used it). A shame, however, that the designers got a bit carried away with themselves from time to time, lol...

 

[Roman]

Exactly. We took that precise approach when developing the planar material in Terrors of the Dead Lands and just called it "The Deep". Want it to actually be the Outer Planes? No problem. Rather use it to represent the Far Realm? Go for it. Need a parallel universe of cosmic cheesemongers? Get stuck in.

Definitely a good call IMO - rationalising the cosmology to what fits for Dark Sun, but keeping the possibilities open for those who want to have it otherwise for historical reasons (or perhaps just to try new things).

It was an odd conglomeration of awesome, epic ideas and utterly daft silliness. The space hamsters weren't anywhere near as odd as the penguin-people who rode about the place on winged pigs, mind you... That said, you could fairly easily snip out the silly bits and have a rather spiffy "etherspace" style fantasy setting (which is how we used it). A shame, however, that the designers got a bit carried away with themselves from time to time, lol...

Interesting... I guess if the supply of innovative epic ideas greatly exceeded that of the silly ideas or if the silliness was easy to remove, it might have been useful.