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Issue with Bards that cast spells

S'mon said:
I was told it was too weak on House Rules, before I added Rage and changed good Ref to good Fort. I don't think it's stronger than the 3.5 Ranger anyway - Rage I always find is a mixed blessing, PCs who Rage routinely die very fast IMCs. Anyway I'm sick of wimpy bards, I wanted something that stacks up well vs Fighter, Ranger, Paladin & Barbarian.

Edit: I think the Bard RAW is a pretty weak class, but that's not my problem with it.

The bard definately is a touch weak of acceptable in a typical campaign. They make great villains though. :)

And actually, I was thinking the same thing about the ranger. Like I said though, it's like you custom built the class for me to play it.
 

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fuindordm said:
I hear ya. Yes, I too find a spellcasting bard pretty easy to swallow to in comparison to all these. I always think of a bard's spells as expressions of their music, so subtle effects (buffs, enchantment, healing, abjurations) seem highly appropriate, while illusions and a few other spells are much less so. If I had my druthers, I'd pare down their spell list significantly and give them a completely different spellcasting method, for example no components other than music (or perhaps singing + various instruments as foci), and you have to play for 1 full round per spell level to acheive the effect.

When I think bard I think of Orpheus, the nordic runemasters and skalds, the Finnish magicians... there's a rich tradition of characters that work their magic through song, poetry, and/or music. The second edition bard, on the other hand, gave me a stomachache.

But for a mundane bard... it's a niche already half-filled by the rogue and aristocrat. I think a d10 HD is a little much for a class whose skills areas are supposed to be knowledge and social skills, and without spells to worry about getting some of the fighter in there is better handled by multiclassing. Then you could have the raging bard by adding a bit of brbarian, the soldier-skald by adding a bit of fighter, etc.

I would do d8 HD, medium BAB, and instead of the rogue special abilities (uncanny dodge, evasion, sneak attack) give them bardic music (for sneak attack), bardic lore (for uncanny dodge), allow any bard or rogue skill as a class skill. And probably throw in a handful of bonus feats as you go up in levels, say 4 or 5.

Ben

Good points. And thanks for agreeing with me, you just made my day. ;)
I always enjoyed the spontanious casting method because it let me play it off as having amasing luck and charm. For the most part, I removed the casting from the musical aspect of the character.

The big problem with trying to alter the bard is that the role of the wanderer/charming vagabond, jack of all trades, and magical musician are all sort of lumped together. The role of the magical musician also varies from game to game. Tinker with any one and the rest start to suffer. It's a very tenuous balance.
 

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