lichmaster
Hero
This is an interesting discussion.
I agree that showing a player that he could take a degree 3 Maneuver if he found a way to learn a maneuver that level doesn't feel right, even if there are design reasons to do so. At this point, better just to have a feat that allows you to take a degree 3 maneuver, and that's it.
Alternatively, maybe having a multiclass progression like spells might allow to have a self consistent and clearer picture: each class learns maneuvers of a degree it can at that level. If you multiclass, there's a separate unified progression, you sum your levels (or fractions of levels), and read the max level of degrees you can learn, how many maneuvers you have, etc.
Actually, I prefer having a single progression regardless of classes, and having class features that allow each class to learn bonus maneuvers or learn higher degree maneuvers earlier. That way you design a solid backbone, and each class simply modifies an aspect of it. A good example of this is given in Trailblazer, with its unified spellcasting table and the specific class features that make each class actually feel and play very differently (sorcerers get bonus spell slots, wizards get bonus spells prepared).
Regarding the progression aspect, instead, I agree with the designers. I like characters growing organically. For mundane activities it just makes sense, but I prefer it also for magic. I love how magic works in WOIN, and non-Vancian systems in general. You need to master the basics before you go for the extras, and the basics keep on being useful on their own. Since WOIN's system is basically an adaptation of Ryan Nock's Elements of Magic, which was a 3.5 supplement, I'd really love a A5E conversion of it. Just imagine the possibilities it would open up.
If there is one holy cow in D&D that must die, I really think is its obsolete magic system. It's basically the one thing that barely changed in 50 years, and it's really showing :/
I agree that showing a player that he could take a degree 3 Maneuver if he found a way to learn a maneuver that level doesn't feel right, even if there are design reasons to do so. At this point, better just to have a feat that allows you to take a degree 3 maneuver, and that's it.
Alternatively, maybe having a multiclass progression like spells might allow to have a self consistent and clearer picture: each class learns maneuvers of a degree it can at that level. If you multiclass, there's a separate unified progression, you sum your levels (or fractions of levels), and read the max level of degrees you can learn, how many maneuvers you have, etc.
Actually, I prefer having a single progression regardless of classes, and having class features that allow each class to learn bonus maneuvers or learn higher degree maneuvers earlier. That way you design a solid backbone, and each class simply modifies an aspect of it. A good example of this is given in Trailblazer, with its unified spellcasting table and the specific class features that make each class actually feel and play very differently (sorcerers get bonus spell slots, wizards get bonus spells prepared).
Regarding the progression aspect, instead, I agree with the designers. I like characters growing organically. For mundane activities it just makes sense, but I prefer it also for magic. I love how magic works in WOIN, and non-Vancian systems in general. You need to master the basics before you go for the extras, and the basics keep on being useful on their own. Since WOIN's system is basically an adaptation of Ryan Nock's Elements of Magic, which was a 3.5 supplement, I'd really love a A5E conversion of it. Just imagine the possibilities it would open up.
If there is one holy cow in D&D that must die, I really think is its obsolete magic system. It's basically the one thing that barely changed in 50 years, and it's really showing :/
