Issues with ocean world and sun/moon

[Bloodstone Mage]

I really would like to run an island hopping campaign on an infinite ocean world. But the logical issues with it, for some reason, bother me. I know these are kind of stupid issues to upset me (since it is a fantasy game), but I thought I'd ask for some advice.

The thing that has come up is the sun and moon. Since the world I'm envisioning is nothing but an endless ocean with waters that stretch from one horizon to the other (with land dotted here and there, of course), I have problems of what happens when the moon and sun rise and set. Also, I have concern over the control the sun has on winds and the control the moon has on the tides. What happens to the sun and moon? I'm not sure what to do. I could just make the sun and moon magical, but to me, that seems like a cheap way out.

What I'm thinking of is this, and please tell me if it sounds cheesy: Have the ocean world be infinite, but only certain islands and parts of the sea can be reached if a traveler is sailing on certain winds that empower some sort of teleportation magic in their breeze.

If anybody has any advice for me, please let me know.
Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

 

[kenjib]

How about a very large ocean planet instead of an infinite plane? From a practical in-game campaign perspective there seems to be little difference to me. Either way you can throw in as much uncharted stuff as you need, which is really the main point of an infinite-islands ocean world, no?

 

[Simplicity]

If you want to stick with the infinite plane, there's a few things you could do.

(1) Fixed sun and moon. They just blink in and out at certain times.

(2) Sun and moon rise from some area in the plane. The sun might rise from one volcano, and set in another. The moon might rise from the water itself...

(3) Sun and moon rise and fall perpendicular to the plane.

(4) Sun and moon orbit something above the plane. In this and the previous example, the sun would never go away, but it might become the size of a star at the distant part of the orbit/path.

Personally, I like 2. The image of a moon rising out of the ocean does it for me. You could even make the sun some sort of fire dragon/fiery chariot/efreet...

 

[Mach2.5]

If you get stuck up on logistics (which I certainly do, even going so far as to learn enough chem and physics as to qualify for at least half a degree in each), then by all means, keep it as simple as you can. Creating a fantastic yet realistic fantasy world is impossible. The more fantasic, the fewer the elements of realism are going to fit in.

But if you must have it an infinite world, you have to think in infinite terms. The sun traveling across the sky would take an infinite amount of time to rise and set. Unless of course there is an infinite stream of suns floating across the sky, spaced far enough and traveling fast enough that as they fade away in one direction it grows dark until the next one arrives. Then of course, if the world is infinite, with an infinite amount of suns traveling in a linear direction, you could technically travel far enough away from the suns' direction of travel that your out of range of the suns entirely (lands of eternal night, perhaps?).

As for the moons effects on tides, it only has a direct effect if your talking two spherical bodies since its based on centrifugal force and gravitational attraction, two concepts you'd have to ditch out entirely with a flat infinite plane. Basically, you'd need a whole new way to explain tides, if you wish to include them. Maybe something is cycling/syphoning a small portion of this infinite amount of water, taking some away only to replace it later on (the specifics as to what, like some great filtrationing monstrosity under the sea, or why are up to you).

 

[Agback]

G'day

Dare to be different! Do you really need day and night? Why not have a monotonous twilight under a featureless but luminous sky? Why not have a dark sky spangled with really bright stars? Why not have a world in which the sky is black, but rock (not dirt) is luminous? Why not have a world lit only by fire?

Go with yout premises! Don't make your world different only to go to a lot of effort to make it the same again.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Hand of Evil]

Those are details that really do not matter but grab and Old Farmers Almanac and use the information in it for your game.

When drawing our your world also build your currents, be logical, if a current hits a landmass it will split / go around it.

 

[Li Shenron]

I really would like to run an island hopping campaign on an infinite ocean world. But the logical issues with it, for some reason, bother me. I know these are kind of stupid issues to upset me (since it is a fantasy game), but I thought I'd ask for some advice.

The thing that has come up is the sun and moon. Since the world I'm envisioning is nothing but an endless ocean with waters that stretch from one horizon to the other (with land dotted here and there, of course), I have problems of what happens when the moon and sun rise and set. Also, I have concern over the control the sun has on winds and the control the moon has on the tides. What happens to the sun and moon? I'm not sure what to do. I could just make the sun and moon magical, but to me, that seems like a cheap way out.

What I'm thinking of is this, and please tell me if it sounds cheesy: Have the ocean world be infinite, but only certain islands and parts of the sea can be reached if a traveler is sailing on certain winds that empower some sort of teleportation magic in their breeze.

If anybody has any advice for me, please let me know.
Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

Another option to consider is not to bother too much...

No, it's not a joke, you could just tell the players that the world is an infinite sea, like you want: this is what their characters know. May they complain that it doesn't make sense to have day/night the way they are, you leave it up to their characters (or other scholars in the world) to find an explanation. You don't have to explain how something works unless it's very needed by a in-game situation. And it is a game, not an essay about an alternative set of physic laws to be made perfectly consistent, otherwise we could only play in a setting which is mostly identical to real life.

Also consider the real life in ancient times: everyone at some point in history believed the earth was flat. Therefore, the earth was flat indeed. There was some occasional problem with it, and scholars made their theories to explain them. At every time in history, scientific knowledge doesn't exactly "know" but rather "describe" reality, only to find exceptions later on which require a revision on the laws used to describe.

Sorry for the digression I just meant to say not to be stressed too much about this concern...

 

[Tonguez]

Also consider the real life in ancient times: everyone at some point in history believed the earth was flat. ..

No they didn't! Polynesians (the closest real world analogy to people in an Ocean-World) were quite aware that the earth was curved like an upturned bowl (so maybe not a sphere but definately curved)

As to the question I'd say go for a 'bigger' moon, constant trade winds making travel along established routes easy (but make them change once every five years or so perhaps introducing a season of hurricaines that devestate the islands)

The rest is changable winds and tides making reaching 'outlier islands (ie off the trade routes) more difficult to reach (and thus more isolated and rife with adventure hooks

 

[Piratecat]

At night, the sun is drowned in the ocean. In the morning, it rises and takes a few moments to dry off before it reignites.

The moon is similar, except that it continues to stream water for some time after it has risen. Many light rainfalls are attributed to moonwater.

 

[Hand of Evil]

What is above your ocean plane? The sun could be something completely different, another plane pulsing with light, growing brighter then fading?