D&D (2024) It goes to show you can't please everbody!

[teitan]

Yes. Or actual modularity, which was the original design intent for 5e.

Modularity that actually exists in 5e.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Yeah, I lived through AD&D and puzzled over the weapon chart with its speeds and everything else and the added complexity just weren't worth it to me, then or now.
.

But then again …. POLEARMS!!!!

And the Great God Gygax came down upon the people and shared with them his work, for he knew it to be good. And finally, looking upon the wondrous Appendix T, the Gygax spoke …

It’s like, how many more polearms could there be? And the answer is none. None more polearms.

 

[Olrox17]

Modularity that actually exists in 5e.

I won’t derail this thread by discussing something that has been discussed to death in the last decade. Suffice to say that no, a smattering of half baked variants in the DMG doesn’t make for a modular game. If you disagree, that’s ok.

 

[occam]

Some people are tired of being told to patch 5E with 3PP books. I want a complete game in as few books as possible. Not three half-done books and six bandaids from three other companies. It shouldn’t be hard for the biggest company in RPGs.

In an attempt to better understand your position: For comparison, can you provide examples of other "complete" games comprised of one or a small number of first-party publications, that need and perhaps have no third-party support, with scope similar to D&D? (I.e. that allow for creation of a wide variety of characters, who can participate in a wide variety of activities, even if confined to a broad genre like "fantasy".) What do those games include that D&D is missing, in your view?

 

[Micah Sweet]

In an attempt to better understand your position: For comparison, can you provide examples of other "complete" games comprised of one or a small number of first-party publications, that need and perhaps have no third-party support, with scope similar to D&D? (I.e. that allow for creation of a wide variety of characters, who can participate in a wide variety of activities, even if confined to a broad genre like "fantasy".) What do those games include that D&D is missing, in your view?

I've heard good things about Worlds Without Number. I haven't read it, but if it's anything like Stars Without Number, there's very little it can't do within its genre.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I've heard good things about Worlds Without Number. I haven't read it, but if it's anything like Stars Without Number, there's very little it can't do within its genre.

I'm not sure other games are asked to stretch as much as D&D is.

"Look, you can do traditional dungeon crawling, fine, but if you can't also do Gothic horror, kingdom management, ship to ship combat both on the ground and in space, and mystery investigations, all with rules that are simple to learn but deep enough to be rewarding to use as one's sole RPG for their entire life, you will be an abject failure."

Sometimes the answer is playing other, more specialized games.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In an attempt to better understand your position: For comparison, can you provide examples of other "complete" games comprised of one or a small number of first-party publications, that need and perhaps have no third-party support, with scope similar to D&D? (I.e. that allow for creation of a wide variety of characters, who can participate in a wide variety of activities, even if confined to a broad genre like "fantasy".) What do those games include that D&D is missing, in your view?

I think that, probably accidentally, you've put your thumb on the scale with the "one or a small number" clause there. I can think of a couple, but that clause by itself makes sure they're pretty obscure.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm not sure other games are asked to stretch as much as D&D is.

"Look, you can do traditional dungeon crawling, fine, but if you can't also do Gothic horror, kingdom management, ship to ship combat both on the ground and in space, and mystery investigations, all with rules that are simple to learn but deep enough to be rewarding to use as one's sole RPG for their entire life, you will be an abject failure."

Sometimes the answer is playing other, more specialized games.

Generic games are a thing. They often do have supplemental works, but they exist. Mind you I'm not getting into the "No True Scotsman" the "rules that are simple to learn but deep enough to be rewarding" because that's subjective enough to ask for that as a dismissal of any examples I gave.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Generic games are a thing. They often do have supplemental works, but they exist. Mind you I'm not getting into the "No True Scotsman" the "rules that are simple to learn but deep enough to be rewarding" because that's subjective enough to ask for that as a dismissal of any examples I gave.

They do, but GURPS and company immediately point you to modular rule sets -- available for additional payment -- to make most of it work. At the basic level, they don't truly do everything to the same level of customer satisfaction.

 

[Thomas Shey]

They do, but GURPS and company immediately point you to modular rule sets -- available for additional payment -- to make most of it work. At the basic level, they don't truly do everything to the same level of customer satisfaction.

Hero doesn't (there are things like Fantasy Hero, but they're far from necessary). Neither does EABA. Savage Worlds might be hard to do without more monsters, but all the basics you need for the things you said are in the core book.

I'd also question whether D&D does everything either, much as some people like to claim it does. It runs certain particular types of fantasy okay, but even fantasy outside that scope isn't well supported.