Itch.io Down Thanks to Funko Pop's "AI"

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Digital gaming storefront Itch.io announced on Bluesky that the cause of an outage early Monday morning was the pop culture collectable company Funko filing a complaint with their domain registrar. The filing came from an "AI Powered" Brand Protection Softare by Funko.. From the spost:

I kid you not, @itch.io has been taken down by Funko of "Funko Pop" because they use some trash "AI Powered" Brand Protection Software called Brand Shield that created some bogus Phishing report to our registrar, iwantmyname, who ignored our response and just disabled the domain

The site appears to be back online at this time. after several hours of downtime. Itch.io is one of the largest online storefronts for independent games including thousands of tabletop roleplaying games.
 

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Darryl Mott

Darryl Mott

Agreed, but with the caveat that wholesale copying someone else’s copyrighted material is not necessarily the best path to incentivize creation.

As noted before, it’s entirely possible to create IP that is arbitrarily close to copyrighted material. Countless Superman-style stories have been published by various comics companies featuring near analogs of Kal-El without actually violating DC’s copyrights. And it’s not clear that any of them would be significantly improved if they featured the actual Superman character. Arguably, some would be worse.

Yeah I want something that lets people create and earn some income and control it if they use it for a reasonable length (30ish years seems long enough to me) but I don't see any reason to protect someone's work that is created and then locked in a vault. Somehow that has to be balanced so creators are not backed into a corner where no one will deal with then until the license is expired but still incentivizes actual production release. With internet tech as it stands now I think a creator could self publish enough to retain control and encourage release.

Why really should the ideal of Superman have that much protection? Alien with super powers? There needs to be something like with patents where the creation has to meet a minimum level of novelty to acquire protection.
 

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Agreed, but with the caveat that wholesale copying someone else’s copyrighted material is not necessarily the best path to incentivize creation.

As noted before, it’s entirely possible to create IP that is arbitrarily close to copyrighted material. Countless Superman-style stories have been published by various comics companies featuring near analogs of Kal-El without actually violating DC’s copyrights. And it’s not clear that any of them would be significantly improved if they featured the actual Superman character. Arguably, some would be worse.
Maybe... but there are also countless works of real merit that tread directly on other works that are no longer under copyright protection, such as myriad adaptations of Shakespeare that would likely fail in the courts if ol' Bill's works were still under the copyright protection of Shakespeare's Legacy Conglomo, Inc.
Bill Shakespeare may be long dead, but long dead vs recently dead is a minor question when the status of the original author is the same - dead. I may think it reasonable for a copyright to extend a bit after an author's death - long enough that any of the author's minor dependents are responsible for their own lives. But beyond that? I don't see the merit. And I sure don't see the merit of a specter of effectively unending copyright when transferred to a corporation that through merger and conglomeration never really dies.
Copyright is limited because it's in the public interest for information and stories to be distributable and not perpetually monopolized. The question is just how long is exclusive control actually fair to both the author and society.
 

This is basically the same thing that I said about how when you buy brand name you're paying for a meaningless logo. What you've described sounds a little bit like hammering one nail from the ship of Theseus into a random dinghy and calling it the Ship of Theseus
You buy a brand name- and if you’re smart- you’re going to get IP, trade secrets, trade dress, customer & client info, contacts, contracts, and more.

FWIW, I got to see a great example of that in my neighborhood. There was a small BBQ joint that had been in business for at least a decade when I first found it. The owner decided to sell it, and the buyers were a family of Korean immigrants. They didn’t know much English, and they didn’t know BBQ, but they were smart. They bought the recipes and kept the employees that did the work- IOW, everyone who knew the business. Day-to-day operations remained essentially unchanged. There was always a line out the door for takeout during the lunch rush.

After about 10 years, they sold it to another Korean family who did the exact same thing. 5 years later that family sold it to an Egyptian who had a silent partner. While that partnership bought the same stuff as their predecessors, the silent partner eventually decided he wanted to own an Asian buffet instead of a BBQ joint. The buffet closed 6 months after the shutdown and relaunch.
 


Maybe... but there are also countless works of real merit that tread directly on other works that are no longer under copyright protection, such as myriad adaptations of Shakespeare that would likely fail in the courts if ol' Bill's works were still under the copyright protection of Shakespeare's Legacy Conglomo, Inc.
There’s a difference between an adaptation and a new creation based on the original IP.

For example, I’ve seen Shakespeare plays staged or filmed as modern gang war stories, westerns, WW2-ish dramas, and classic sci-fi. That’s just staging; not really actionable.

OTOH, Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead is not merely a rearrangement of Hamlet, it tells a story The Bard probably never would have written. Arguably, it might be found to violate Stratford Bill’s copyright.

Then there’s things like Jimmy Smith’s jazz version of “Peter & The Wolf” that is so deconstructed that you’d be forgiven for not recognizing that it was very much based on Prokofiev’s original. Trying to prove that in a court of law might prove daunting
Bill Shakespeare may be long dead, but long dead vs recently dead is a minor question when the status of the original author is the same - dead. I may think it reasonable for a copyright to extend a bit after an author's death - long enough that any of the author's minor dependents are responsible for their own lives. But beyond that? I don't see the merit. And I sure don't see the merit of a specter of effectively unending copyright when transferred to a corporation that through merger and conglomeration never really dies.
There’s no such thing as “effectively unending copyright”. Longer than a typical human’s lifespan? Certainly. But every copyright eventually falls into the public domain.

That it may do so when you’re inconveniently dead is not germane.
Copyright is limited because it's in the public interest for information and stories to be distributable and not perpetually monopolized. The question is just how long is exclusive control actually fair to both the author and society.
Note: I am not and have never advocated for eternal copyright. Let’s not raise that straw man again, even as a preamble.

As to the real question- “what duration is fair?”- is clearly controversial. As a creator and advocate, my bias is in favor of longer durations (obviously). It’s not that I can’t see or understand the counterpoints; I just don’t see them as outweighing the interests of IP creators.
 

if you are allowing so-called AI, or any system really, to make decisions without human oversight then you are at fault already, a priori. Because something WILL go wrong. Not IF, WHEN. And you've decided not to review that, just to let it happen.
Agree completely, which is why I'm glad Funko explicitly took responsibility for issuing the takedown.

Anyone going to a stage play instead of a movie is already going there for a live experience. And the existence of stage plays are proof positive that being paid once per performance instead of over and over again for about a century would not be the end of acting.
So who owns the venue? Who sells the tickets?

Abolishing IP would be 100% in line with lassiez faire capitalism. If you can make better character figurines than Funko or a better Star Wars movie than Disney it isn't anybody's place to tell you not to. Only the market should be allowed to decide that.
So who owns the manufacturing resources? Who runs the art guilds?

If the market were really free none of these senescent content behemoths like the big film studios and record labels would have survived the rise of the internet and cheap recording tech; they would have all been undercut by cheaper faster competitors
But the market is not free, because those at the top have the power to shut down uprisers through means other than fair market competition.

Also, as yet, the .io ccTLD is not yet scheduled for retirement; Mauritius hasn't said what it's going to do - it could consider the Indian Ocean Territory to be a client state, held in trust (unlikely, but possible), kept as a regional identity (and thus not technically a ccTLD, but since that's the status it held under the UK, it's also plausible, it could be that they ask the ISO to leave it in place and mine it for cash, it could be that they expire it, but until they make that decision, the 3 year timer doesn't hit.
I should have been more accurate in my statement. Still best to have multiple TLDs/registrars and start looking for another domain name now given this uncertain future.

If society for some reason abandoned copyright, trademark, and intellectual property rights . . . which isn't going to happen . . . but if it did . . . it would be a big change for sure! It would change the type of media we'd get as consumers and it would certainly change the ability of artists to make a full-time living off their work.
It can be argued that we'll need to fall back on trademarks and design patents as copyright will effectively be rendered obsolete at the rate AI can generate content. That said, it's only a matter of time before courts rule that content generated by AI exclusively fed and trained on the content you own are protected by copyright. In fact they're likely to rule that simply using work your own rather than random noise will suffice, as it's effectively just applying a filter to it.

Regardless the future is inevitable, which is why my sole concern are the technical, legal, and ideological barriers which could prevent independent artists from accessing the technology.
 

I’ve seen a range of suggestions about shorter copyright durations, but it’s a rare one that pares it down to only pre-1980s levels. Even that wasn’t short enough.

Coupled with people asserting that copyrights should not be transferable is even more hostile to IP creators.
Well since at least 1980 copyrights have been pretty hostile to the public at large so the pendulum tends to swing both ways if you wait long enough.
One good song generally won’t. But it may provide you with enough of a cushion to get you through hard times.

But if you want truly professional level music, you need to allow musicians to be able to support themselves with their music. Pros put in practice & performance time like people doing 9-5 office work.
I'd say my need for professional musicians is much, much lower than the number who want to be professional musicians which is always going to push the earnings of professional musicians down. And sadly what level of professionalism I personally need is much lower than I think professionals on artistic arenas think it should be. I've fairly routinely had this whole discussion as it relates to photography. I discuss the complaints that professionally trained photographers dont get paid as well as they used to. Large numbers of digital, automated cameras have created "good enough" photographs that the public actually wanted. They had to settle for higher priced professional level photos because that's all there was before. The truth from my perspective is the wages the pro photographers had before were propped up by the skills necessary to use the tool(camera). When that dropped the price dropped both because they couldn't charge for those skills anymore and because the buyers on average never really cared about the amount of skill that it takes to setup good lighting, placement in a photo, etc. They mostly wanted a picture of their friend, kid ,business, etc in the paper as long as it was good enough(in focus, smiling, looking good). I suspect that is a sad truism in most of the arts. People buying the arts on average only care about good enough.

Making a living your entire life just on the arts is not realistic for 90% of the participants. People don't value it enough and the quantity of people who want to do it is so large that earnings from it will always be low.

If their 1M streams are earning poverty level wages, they’re going to need a second job. (And their second job might not be cool with their merch or taking 1 month off to tour.)

Don’t forget, that is $4M for “the artist”, regardless of whether they’re 100% a solo act or if they’re a large band or musical collective.

I decided not to get into the weeds because it can be tedious, but, in all honesty, $1M isn’t as much as most people think it is.
If you have $1m, you average 100k a year in S&P returns. That's pretty sweet assuming you do nothing else. Now some years you get nothing and others you might get 180k but historically 10% is your average.
Until most state lotteries changed their laws to require a minimalist financial education course before collecting a big win, the average American $5m lottery winner had spent it all within 5-7 years. This fact got publicized, and it actually caused ticket purchases to decline enough to endanger the viability of lotteries in some states.
The general public would be well served by having a serious home economics course in high school. I'm going to worry a lot less about the 5% who get a windfall and fail to manage it vs the much larger number of folks living paycheck to paycheck while still earning a living. You fix that and you probably don't need to worry about the windfall folks.

You buy a brand name- and if you’re smart- you’re going to get IP, trade secrets, trade dress, customer & client info, contacts, contracts, and more.

FWIW, I got to see a great example of that in my neighborhood. There was a small BBQ joint that had been in business for at least a decade when I first found it. The owner decided to sell it, and the buyers were a family of Korean immigrants. They didn’t know much English, and they didn’t know BBQ, but they were smart. They bought the recipes and kept the employees that did the work- IOW, everyone who knew the business. Day-to-day operations remained essentially unchanged. There was always a line out the door for takeout during the lunch rush.

After about 10 years, they sold it to another Korean family who did the exact same thing. 5 years later that family sold it to an Egyptian who had a silent partner. While that partnership bought the same stuff as their predecessors, the silent partner eventually decided he wanted to own an Asian buffet instead of a BBQ joint. The buffet closed 6 months after the shutdown and relaunch.
So I have the counter factual to this in my town, as it relates to IP, where the restaurant(burger joint) changed hands and the owners ,like your example, kept the personnel, general menu but changed the name, interior and style. Business is still solid since functionally nothing changed. Place X still served roughly the same food and setting but nothing close enough you would need to pay extra for the trademarks. At that size and location it's mostly about the people and food than trade dress.
 

The touring being where most money comes from makes sense to me because it's the part that can't be replicated by anyone else. You can't go to a Taylor Swift concert if she's not there.

Plus it makes intuitive sense to be paid more for multipke performances on tour than for one performance in a studio

Touring makes both the artist and the label money, but actually, merch is king.
Touring and merch are where the money is. People who are successful enough to actually live off songwriting and recording albums practically don't exist anymore, due to the changing economics of the industry.

Courtney Love gave a big speech about this decades ago, and file-sharing online was barely a thing yet. Nevermind Spotify or YouTube paying miniscule sums for millions of plays. The economics of IP law as regards to music are mostly set up to benefit corporate ownership, not musicians or the public.
 

The economics of IP law as regards to music are mostly set up to benefit corporate ownership, not musicians or the public.
Exactly. And that more than cancels out whatever benefits they may have

All it does is prop up a bunch of useless and obsolete middlemen at the expense of the consumer. The very same moddlemen it was meant to protect people from

EDIT
Hopefully AI will put down the record labels and send them at last to the grave they've repused to resy peacefully in these thirty years
 
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Touring and merch are where the money is. People who are successful enough to actually live off songwriting and recording albums practically don't exist anymore, due to the changing economics of the industry.
Touring only makes significant money for top tier artists. Metallica, Swift, etc. They not only command higher ticket prices and longer tours, they take a higher percentage of each ticket sold. Some of the biggest can even ask for a share of income streams normally not available, like a piece of concessions.

For pretty much every other artist, their share of touring revenue is minor, and touring is more akin to album sales & streams: a way to sell merchandise.
 

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