Item Creation Caster Levels (Is this true??)

[Marshall]

Actually, "not stopping" isn't anymore (you can split up your days however you want). *tears off before the veggies start flying*

and all else listed is a pre-req for using the FEAT, not making the item.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Actually, "not stopping" isn't anymore (you can split up your days however you want). *tears off before the veggies start flying*

I hadn't noticed that, I like this change the not stopping bit was a lame limit IMO.

 

[Marshall]

The quote posted from Monte Cook seems to indicate this isn't so. He implies he doesn't feel it should be a pre-req, but as the book is written it still is. By the book it is a pre-req, and at least one designer has aparently backed this .

Actually, He says its not supposed to have been in 3.0. He cant believe it wasn't fixed in the 3.0 errata. And even further, that with all the 3.5 changes, they still didn't fix the wording that leaves the interpretation cloudy.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Then why do both Monte Cook and Sean K. Reynolds now agree that the rule needs to be re-written if it is to match their supposed design intent?

because its not clearly written. They have and had a design intent its not a supposed intent, the writing doesn't clearly match there intent. A cleared up wiriting therefore is needed.

 

[kreynolds]

and all else listed is a pre-req for using the FEAT, not making the item.

I wouldn't know. I'm too lazy to go back and see what "all else" even is.

 

[Aristotle]

Actually, He says its not supposed to have been in 3.0. He cant believe it wasn't fixed in the 3.0 errata. And even further, that with all the 3.5 changes, they still didn't fix the wording that leaves the interpretation cloudy.

Which is basically what I said. He doesn't think it should have been left in the game, and isn't sure why it is still there... but he doesn't say that the current wording is cloudy... he gives an example showing that the "caster levels as pre-requisite" thing is valid by the current wording in the book.

I'm not saying that caster levels should be pre-reqs or that the designers want it to be that way. I'm just saying that the current wording, by admission of one of the original developers, calls for it.

I fully expect to see it changed in an errata (and big discussions like this one are the sort of thing to bring about such eratta). But, as others have said, this is a rules forum and the most current printing of the rules state caster levels are a pre-req. If you felt the wording was cloudy... Monte was nice enough to clear it up and tell us what the intent of the wording is.

 

[dcollins]

because its not clearly written. They have and had a design intent its not a supposed intent, the writing doesn't clearly match there intent. A cleared up wiriting therefore is needed.

At no point have they said it was ambiguous or "not clearly written". Initially Monte Cook outright misquoted the DMG. More recently he has revised his assertion, saying flat-out:

Caster level is still a prerequisite for magic item creation. ( http://www.montecook.com/review.html )

 

[Silverglass]

Good quote. However, it is inconsistent with the paragraphs "Caster Level" and "Prerequisites" on page 178: "Prerequisites" says that CL is a misc. requirement, like alignment, race and kind. This means that, like alignment, race and kind, not every item has a required CL. What "Caster Level" says, I've explained in a previous post.

What you're doing, forcing me to defend my position, leaves my other questions unaswered, so:?

What it says is that level in the prerequistes is a miscellaneous requirement, Caster Level as it applies in the form of the CL of the item itself is actually an attribute of the item and is separate from the prerequisites, but the creator must have a caster level "as high as" the item CL.

And it also plainly says that that anything listed in the prerequisites section could be supplied by another character. So unless it specifically says "creator" in the prerequisites no prerequisite in any way sets a mandatory lower limit on the level of the creator unless they supply it themselves.

In Crafting Magic Items it says:
"Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed)."

- I mean, if the CL given is automatically the required CL, then why do Ioun Stones have both a Caster Level and a CL in the prerequisites?

- How do Sorcerer's craft items with a 6th level spell and CL 11?

- Why are there items with a lower CL than the the minimum CL for the spells?

Ioun stones say "creator must be 12th level" which means just that, the Creator must be 12th level. It may be redundant but it still does not directly contradict the general rules.

Taking the rules as written a CL11 item with a prerequisite of a 6th level spell could be created by an 11th Level sorceror (acting as the Creator) with access to a 1/day item of that spell, or x scrolls of the spell (1 for each day of creation) or an 11th level wizard who provides the spell each day of creation or a creature of any level who has the spell as a spell-like ability. This also allows the Sorceror to create items whose prerequisite spell is not in his limited "spells known" list.

- - Oh, and another fun one: the Potion of Vision. CL: 2nd. PR: Brew Potion, spellcaster 6+. Why is the CL 2 'required' (you insist that CL is a requirement) when CL 6+ is actually required?

- Does your explanation make sense to you when you look at the CL and prereqs of a Potion of Vision?

Yes it does, primarily because potions have a separate declaration to, say, wondrous items as regards caster level in that CL is a variable for potions. So 3rd level caster could create a Potion of Vision if a 6th level caster helps them out.