Item Creation Feat and Shadow Magic?

[demon_jr]

Take this scenario:

2 characters, 1 has an item creation feat, the other is a shadow magic user who has the spells required to create the item in question. Now, when the 2 characters cooperate to create an item, is it a shadow magic item or a regular magic item?

Removed [FR] tag as a result of original question becoming somewhat campaign non-specific.

 

[kreynolds]

Man...why you gotta ask the hard questions?

Actually, I think the question that will lead you to your answer is "Who spent the XP?". Then again, I'm not so sure. My brain fell outta my head when I first saw your question, so I don't how reliable I am right now.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Re: [FR] Item Creation Feat and Shadow Magic?

Now, when the 2 characters cooperate to create an item, is it a shadow magic item or a regular magic item?

They cannot cooperate!

Divine and arcane spellcaster draw power from and create items with the Weave, however Shadow Weave users draw power from the Shadow Weave.

It is two fundamentally different spellcaster methods, in fact opposites in many respects.

For them to cooperate on a magic item, is basically the same as asking a Psion and a Sorceror to cooperate on a magic item.

So it cannot be done.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

What AGGEMAM said.

It might also well be that Mystra and/or shar will strip them of their powers if they try to cooperate. Both have the means of cutting any other being, excluding only Ao, off their respective weaves, and Shar surely has the temper to do so if you fail her in her eyes (like a certain Sharran necromancer who dared to hope...)

 

[demon_jr]

QUOTE]Originally posted by AGGEMAM


They cannot cooperate!

Divine and arcane spellcaster draw power from and create items with the Weave, however Shadow Weave users draw power from the Shadow Weave.

It is two fundamentally different spellcaster methods, in fact opposites in many respects.

For them to cooperate on a magic item, is basically the same as asking a Psion and a Sorceror to cooperate on a magic item.

So it cannot be done. [/QUOTE]

Since I happen to have my DMG next to me, here is a small quote from the text, page 178.

"It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the necessary prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary, such as if one character knows some of the spells necessary to create an item and another character knows the rest."

In regards to the Shadow Magic being a different spellcaster method, although that may be true in most respects, I believe that the spells in question would still be classified as arcane or divine regardless of it being from the Weave or Shadow Weave.

Since magic items usually require a spell in creation, a character need only know the spell, have access to a character that knows the spell, or even have an item or spell like ability that can cast the spell in question. That being the case, I don't see why a Shadow Magic user and a regular magic user couldn't cooperate.

 

[Berk]

*waves his "what AGGEMAM and KaeYoss said" flag around*

 

[AGGEMAM]

In regards to the Shadow Magic being a different spellcaster method, although that may be true in most respects, I believe that the spells in question would still be classified as arcane or divine regardless of it being from the Weave or Shadow Weave.

It does not matter if it is arcane or divine.

What does matter is that the Weave and the Shadow Weave are two completely different sources of power.

And as KaeYoss said, Mystra or in particular Shar would be likely to strip any character trying such a heretic act of any spellcasting power they might possess.

 

[Pax]

Re: [FR] Item Creation Feat and Shadow Magic?

Take this scenario:

2 characters, 1 has an item creation feat, the other is a shadow magic user who has the spells required to create the item in question. Now, when the 2 characters cooperate to create an item, is it a shadow magic item or a regular magic item?

Based on teh premise of Shadow Weave magic, I woudl say the two absolutely cannot cooperate. Shadow Weave magic is the antithesis of Weave magic.

At the very least, both would get the smack-down from the goddes in charge of their particular brandof magic (Mystra/Mystara would close off the Weave-user from all spellcasting for at least, say, a month; Shar would likely just *squish* the Shadow Weave user). Why? For "fraternising with the enemy" ...

Weave magic and Shadow Weave magic use two wholly seperate energy forms/sources to power their effects; the two should be treated like oil and water (they don't mix).

 

[Pax]

Since I happen to have my DMG next to me, here is a small quote from the text, page 178.

"It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the necessary prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary, such as if one character knows some of the spells necessary to create an item and another character knows the rest."

All well and good, but since this is a setting-specific issue, the DMG is not the final authority.

It's akin to a wizard, who doesn't know fireball, asking an Alchemist to help him make a Wand of Fireballs (because the alchemist can make batches of alchemists' fire big enough to mimic, to an extent, the effects of a fireball). Obviously, that wouldn't work.

Shadow Weave Magic is hard to even DETECT using standard, Weave-based magic. It's hard to dispel or counter, too -- and the same holds true in the other direction.

In regards to the Shadow Magic being a different spellcaster method, although that may be true in most respects, I believe that the spells in question would still be classified as arcane or divine regardless of it being from the Weave or Shadow Weave.

A Psion and a Wizard couldn't cooperate on an item, even if both had each other's equivalent feats; for example, no +1 Flaming Body-Feeder Longswords, using combination Psionic / Arcane enhancements.

Since magic items usually require a spell in creation, a character need only know the spell, have access to a character that knows the spell, or even have an item or spell like ability that can cast the spell in question. That being the case, I don't see why a Shadow Magic user and a regular magic user couldn't cooperate.

Read Magic of Faerun, and you will see why. Aside from the whole inviting-markedly-unhappy-divine-intervention aspect.

 

[demon_jr]

I appreciate all the responses so far.

However, I still have difficulty agreeing with everyone. I don't have Magic of Faerun nearby or the FR Campaign book, but if someone can point me to where it states that Shadow Magic users and Weave users can not create items together, it would be very helpful to me.

I'm looking for a rule-based answered, as oppossed to a campaign "flavor" answer, which in my opinion, is what most of the answers have been so far.

Which is perfectly legitimate for the campaign you play in.