items on a bad guy

[evilbob]

The magic threshold is the magic bonus the NPC is expected to already have. The level 11 guy already has a +2 bonus to defenses and such (details are in the text, check it out); the level 26 guy has +5. When you add a magic item, you only add the part of the bonus that's over the threshold. Thus, if you give Mr Eleven a +3 amulet, he only adds +1 to his defenses, while a +1 item wouldn't affect him at all (since the threshold already covers that bonus). Similarly, Sir Twenty-Six would only benefit from enhancement bonuses of at least +6 - but still, only the part that's over his threshold.

To clarify, after double-checking the book: The magic threshold is the part of the level bonus that's assumed to be from magic items.

Ok, I am sorry I missed this post before I posted just now: what you said makes more sense.

But it still doesn't help that a low-level guy gets a huge boost from anything... Plus the name "threshold" still implies a limit to me... Ah well. Thanks for explaining it, everyone!

 

[James McMurray]

It makes sense within the framework of encounter design. A +5 sword is a very high level item. It's never going to be found in the hands of a 5th level NPC opponent because either the NPC is too weak to be a challenge or the sword is well above the party's treasure levels. So while there are theoretical corner cases that make the math look funky, you can ignore them because they don't exist.

 

[DracoSuave]

The reason you subtract the magic level bonus is because it's assumed the NPC is benefiting from something to get that attack bonus anyways. So it -could be- magic items, it could be special training, it's just to handwave all the feat selections and item selections that go into it, also making it so you don't have to load them down with a huge assortment of items just to be a balanced encounter.

It's not really like they don't benefit, it's just that the encounter design works whether or not you given them an item.

 

[Gruns]

Really, if it's that annoying/hard to grasp for you, simply ignore the magic item bonuses and just let them benefit from the occassional Daily power from an item. Or, to add slightly more complexity, just add +1 to the creature's attack and damage rolls(or defenses if armor) regardless of the item enhancement, since this is generally what an appropriate level item is going to amount to anyway.
Later!
Gruns

 

[Insignia]

Plus the name "threshold" still implies a limit to me...

No, no. A threshold is something you have to step over to get somewhere. A ceiling limits how high you can step.

 

[LittleFuzzy]

No, no. A threshold is something you have to step over to get somewhere. A ceiling limits how high you can step.

Well technically both are limits. The word limit is direction-agnostic. Both lower limits and upper limits are conceptually and linguistically sound. Similarly threshold can be used in a direction-agnostic fashion.

 

[MrBeens]

The thresholds are there to simplify monster and encounter design and to prevent you flooding the PC's with magic items.

Take a monster with a threshold of +2 - his stats include the equivalent of a +2 magic weapon, armour and neck slot item.

If you remove the threshold idea and drop his stats back to a normal monster, you then have to deck him out with the items to make him combat effective. You also have to do this for all his buddies.
Which means that at the end of the encounter your PCs have a pile of 3* number of monsters + 2 items.

The the threshold system is much better than having to hand craft each and every monster.

 

[CapnZapp]

What that table on page 187 of the DMG is trying to say is that all monsters between levels 11-15 have gotten a +2 magic item bonus built-in.

This means that adding any real +2 magic items aren't supposed to do this monster any good.

Yes, this amounts to cheating. The monster gets the bonuses without having to drop any items when it's looting time!

But what a wonderful time-saver and admin-zapper this is!

Think of all the "junk-loot" (or "sell-loot") you're saved from having to come up with and transfer across to the players, who in turn are freed from calculating the sell price and the encumbrance.

If you're bothered by this, just say that much of any gold dropped by monsters is represented by junk loot. Stuff that isn't any better than what they already have equipped. It's just that the PCs get the gold amount directly; they're assumed to sell it anyway.