Items that Grant Additional Spells Known

[Khristos]

Indeed I was using the rings of wizardry cap for 4th level spells as a guideline. I just dropped the name so people didnt think I was randomly pulling 4th and lower out of my hat. However another nice benefit that the rings themselves allow would be items that effect more than 1 level of spells as again the ring of wizardry demonstrates. This solves the initial prblems of

1) potential gamebreaking issues by free use of high level magic

2) Arbitrarily putting the ability outside of the reach of the player

3) Limitations on the use of proposed magic item by providing a limited area of use ( it uses a ring slot... and rings are expensive )

One outside the box idea would be to allow the DM to horribly throw out the DMG magic guidelines. Here is what I would allow a sorceror who really wanted a more "powerful" item. I would let them forge the ring and sacrifice personal spell slots to put 2 spell slots available on the ring for every 1 sacrificed. I call this the Sauron theory of magic item crafting. Makes the sorceror a mad dog until the ring is lost. Anyway just had to be silly so back to the point at hand.....

 

[Anubis]

Money is the limitation. Sorcerers still have plenty of other things to use money on. I'd rather have a Staff of Maximized Magic Missile than an item that gives me one more 9th-level spell.

You're simply not breaking a major limitation, and the cost would be big enough anyway. Pearl of Power would still be much better.

 

[Thanee]

You're simply not breaking a major limitation, and the cost would be big enough anyway. Pearl of Power would still be much better.

For the same cost!?

Yeah, right!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

So why not just add in an extra limitation of some sort thanee?


How about this item then?

Sorcerous Pearly Thingy (tm)
These items look like small pearls in the shape of various phases of the moon. From new moon (0th level) to full moon (9th level) each grants a new spell known to whoever keeps it on their person for at least a full day. The spell it grants is chosen at the time of its making.

No character can benefit from more than 1 of each level (for a max of 10 being used, 1 for each spell level).

A characer can only use these pearls if they can cast at least 1 level higher spells than the one that it is for (ie if you can cast 5th level spells then you can use the pearls for 0 - 4th levels, but not 5th or above).

The cost for these items is the same as a pearl of power of the same level.


So these guys have all sorts of limitations, and most of the time I would greatly prefer to have other items (81k for the 9th level? yeah right, it may be nice, but I'd rather have a whole pile of other items, or an incredible improvement to a few others). I'd probably rather have some other cost, maybe even as little as half.

of course, there is a ring in relics and rituals that has worked fine in the last campaign I was in.

It cost 15k, you could cast up to 10 levels of spells into it, and they were on your 'spells known' list while wearing it. Never saw a problem with it, and it was always a hard choice of what to put in it. Sometimes it was even hard to find someone to cast the spell that they wanted to have stored.

 

[Thanee]

It cost 15k, you could cast up to 10 levels of spells into it, and they were on your 'spells known' list while wearing it.

That item is seriously in there!?
Wow! I'd get two of those in an eyeblink!

You sure there wasn't some sort of extra limitation, like that the stored spell is gone after casting it once? Even then it would be very, very good, but not as totally crazy as if it worked like above.

Same about the pearly thingies , I'd want every single one (well, cept the 0th and 9th level, of course, as they are useless) by level 20, and there's not really much I'd choose above those (charisma boost, resistance boost mostly).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

Wow! I'd get two of those in an eyeblink!

There goes two of your item slots and a decent amount of money. Even at higher levels there isnt a problem, if you want more powerful spells in it, then you get fewer.

Like I said, we never had a problem with it at all. I dont see why there would be one really. Loseing those ring slots often was the biggest cost, and it is a painful one.

Same about the pearly thingies , I'd want every single one (well, cept the 0th and 9th level, of course, as they are useless) by level 20, and there's not really much I'd choose above those (charisma boost, resistance boost mostly).

For 204k you gained a bonus known spell of 1 - 8. woo. I wouldnt touch this as a sorc, I would much rather go other routes that spend that much money in much more productive ways.

That is an incredible chunk of change for something that I see as a nice benefit, but hardly overpowering. Sortof like the rings of wizardry, they suck horribly for the wizard, and are somwhat bearable for sorcs.

For the price of those extra 8 known spells I could instead have a ring of wizardry 4, 3, and 2 (ok, so the rings cost 6k more total).

would I rather have a few more spells known a day, or be able to cast 18 more spells per day? And this is matching it with an item you have already said is inferior.

But, the rings do take up slots. I prefer to compare them without taking that into account because of how much the rings as written sicken my sense of balance

If we toss out the, major, restriction above about not being able to gain the extra spells for your highest level possible then you'll probably want the 9th level one again (although, I am not sure why you wouldnt want the 0th at that point). That would put the total cost up to 285k, almost half of the wealth of a high level character, for a benefit that is nice, but definately not worth the sheer amount of gp invested.

Anyway though, even at the pearl of power price I think it would be way too high of a price. The rings I mentioned above never showed any problems, maybe they would in other peoples campaigns, but anyone who has a problem with it and wanted me to actually pay attention to them would have to honestly say that they dont think casters are incredibly overpowered at high levels. Since, in that campaign also, the dm had no problem keeping the balance, and easily at that.

Take it as you will of course, but if the ring above showed no problems, then charging an incredible amount more to get less should also be no problems in overpowerdness, probably a few in underpowerdness though.

 

[Thanee]

30k and all my ring slots for 20 spell levels worth of spells known, which I can change however I see fit (given someone to fill them, of course, that might be a problem sometimes)? I'd actually be willing to pay 300k for those.

Well, it's always a matter of playing style and the DM, if an item will cause trouble. Even the most horribly broken stuff can work fairly well, if used in a reasonable way.

I'm just trying to look at the possibilities and those rings are so broken with that cost, it's not even funny. That's almost like giving out rings of spellstoring and holy avengers for free.

Additional spell slots would be nice for a sorcerer, sure, always handy, but additional spells known would be a godsend. Those two can hardly compare, especially not for the same cost. IMHO of course.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

I'd actually be willing to pay 300k for those.

At that point I think that our discussion is over From my point of view there is something seriously wrong with your balance meter, to the point of irreconcilable differences.

Sure it may work for you, but it wouldnt work in any game I have been in.

I'm just trying to look at the possibilities and those rings are so broken with that cost, it's not even funny.

Ahh, but you havent said how really. Just that, in your opinion, it is broken.

Say you can cast 6th level spells, but you want some extra variety with lower level stuff. So you pay 15k, get the ring, and pick up some 4th, 2 2nd's, and 2 1sts.

Good enough. But you are down a slot and some money, along with only getting a few lower level slots. It is nice for versitility, but to gain any real amount of 'power' you'll have to drain it quickly. The higher level you get, when the amount of money will mean less and the slot will mean more, the amount of spells you get from it that are really useful go down.

I have seen it in action, whereas it sounds like you are just stating what you feel it would do. That is fine, but I'd like to see what this 'broken' part is, and where it comes from. I never saw it, nor did anyone else in the game I was in.

Additional spell slots would be nice for a sorcerer, sure, always handy, but additional spells known would be a godsend. Those two can hardly compare, especially not for the same cost. IMHO of course.

Personally, if I had to choose between being able to double the amount of spells I could cast for a level, or get one extra one known, I would go for the double. Especially as, at the levels we are talking here, the sorc has a very large variety of spells to choose from anyway.

Chooseing between one extra 9th level spell known, or a whole pile of equipment, there isnt even a contest in my eyes. The pile wins out easily, miles above the spell.

Same with most every other one of those items actually, I merely made the pearl above to try to appease those who felt the others were too powerful. If they feel the one I posted above is too strong then I dont know where they are coming from