It's a whip.... and ?....

[MarauderX]

/Aside

MarauderX, do you still have a fetish for the whip? I thought that died out when your Aryana bard bit the dust...

It's leather. It does submissive, I mean, subdual damage. Call it a fetish.

 

[Nifft]

Both make sense and both have rules precedence; that pretty much leaves it up to the DM's discresion, eh?

Certainly However, the DM may wish to use the interpretation that best fits his intuition, so that when similar issues come up later, his world is internally consistant.

-- N

 

[ARandomGod]

Me?

I say a Shocking Whip deals 1d2 subdual + 1d6 electricity, but a whip cannot deal damage to a creature with an Armor bonus.

Just like I wouldn't let a Brilliant Energy Shocking longsword deal electricity damage to a construct, and just like I would let a Ghost Touch Shocking greataxe deal electricity damage to an incorporeal creature with no miss chance.

-Hyp.

Interesting.
Now, I'd have the whip deal no damage, but the damage deal damage.
Of course, it'd be 1d2subdual+xlethal +1d6 electrical damage with no armor bonus,
and, of course, I'd say that it would be x lethal+ 1d6 electrical to anything with an armor bonus...
Now, I think you're saying that it would be no damage whatsoever... which is a fine rule for someone who just doesn't want whips to deal damage. Of course, houseruling out whips would be just as fair. But, more importantly, taking that ruling, are you saying all subdual, or partially subdual, or ?

Brilliant energy would go right through a construct... never connecting and logically doing no damage. Makes perfect sense.

Ghost touch, on the other hand. I still say that being able to hit such creatures is what it was MADE for. And the rulesmakers were simply sloppy. Now I wouldn't let a ghost touch damage an incorporeal creature that was incapable of manifesting, ie incapable of touching the material plane in any way. But there it's really just getting into definitions.

 

[ARandomGod]

But one day, perhaps in D&D edition 8.5, there will be rules so complex as to cover the different limbs of the body, and left, right and center torso, front and rear, and head... an updated Battletech-esque system to put ACs and HPs on everything so it affects skill attempts too...
But alas, this is merely 3.5... but... someday... until then, I dream...
Only then will the whip get respect as you dish out stinging lashes on your foe's exposed legs, just before he launches into the air using a Jump Spell to do a DFA (Death from Above). For the sake of simplicity I will abide by the 3.5 rules for armor protecting against a whip. Right now it looks like whips will only be good for teaching low-level monks a lesson.

No there won't. Such rules already exist. Say in Hackmaster, or in other games. In D&D they're trying to go more for a Magic:The Gathering feel to roll play.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now, I think you're saying that it would be no damage whatsoever...

Right. The +1d6 electricity is damage dealt by the whip. If I weren't attacking with the whip, that damage would not occur.

But damage dealt by a whip can't hurt someone with an armor bonus. As damage dealt by a whip, the +1d6 electricity can't hurt someone with an armor bonus.

Nifft's argument is also logical, but it requires drawing an analogy - the whip deals no damage as if it completely failed to penetrate DR - which isn't actually explicitly laid out.

But, more importantly, taking that ruling, are you saying all subdual, or partially subdual, or ?

Ahh Now, that's the point where my argument faltered last time I had this conversation.

Intuitively, I'd say the shocking damage is lethal.

But following the same line of argument that leads me to say that the shocking damage is repelled by the armor bonus, I'm forced to say the shocking damage is non-lethal, because "a whip deals non-lethal damage".

Somehow, then, I have to make things fit in my head so I can say that "A whip deals non-lethal damage" and "A whip deals no damage" are somehow interpreted in two different contexts.

And that's the bit I'm having trouble with

Ghost touch, on the other hand. I still say that being able to hit such creatures is what it was MADE for.

I'm agreeing with you there.

I've seen someone argue that the weapon is Brilliant Energy, but the Electricity isn't, so the 1d6 still affects the construct, and that the weapon is Ghost Touch, but the Electricity isn't, so the 1d6 still suffers the 50% miss chance against the spectre.

I don't agree with either of those.

-Hyp.