It's Dark Sun

[Shroomy]

They might go so far as to say, "Gnomes are virtually unknown in Dark Sun." What they won't do is say, "You can't play a gnome."

That would probably be the way to go.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I am very excited about DArk Sun coming. I had hoped it would be redone and did feel hat it had a very stron synergy with 4e. YAY

As for the idea they might not try to shoehorn every 4E race and class in, MORE POWER TO THEM!!!!!

Trying to fit in every class, race and such would be ridiculous, seriously ridiculous. Like changing Dragonborn to Peterrens (sp?) or having tiny enclaves of half-orcs, goliaths, gnomes, etc around? No thanks. I hope they introduce 3-4 new races and change the racial abilities of most of hte rest. That would make them differnet, and if they are no totally compatible withthe rest of 4E, who cares?

Though I suspect I might find out downthread.....

 

[Banshee16]

I've played Dark Sun for many years, including many years after the setting was retired. I've been a regular on Dark Sun mailing lists and forums for years.

I can tell you that most long time Dark Sun fans I am aware of used the given dehydration and heat rules for Dark Sun briefly, then gave up on those rules. Keeping track of thirst and heat in 2e Dark Sun was the suck. If only because low level spells obviated those rules. Just the same way knock made rogue's open locks ability redundant, create water took the harsh of Athas. Then there was the tedium of simply tracking your PCs status.

After a while, most of us simply ditched those rules because spellcasters were always parking the requisite spells that neutralized the environment effects for the party . . . which made the casters just that less effective at the deadly low levels. It wasn't long until we figured this out and just turned off the environment rules so our spellcasters could get their spells back while we hand waved it all as "the party has taken all precautions against the environment".

As a longtime Dark Sun fan, I will not be tossing fits if there were no mechanics for thirst and heat to follow, leaving it all up to DMs setting the mood. No skin off my back. It got old back then.

But (!) if the designers can come up with interesting ways to challenge PCs at all levels with environmental effects, ways that didn't require tedious tracking of conditions, then I'll gladly take this "messing with the setting" with joy.

Personally, when I ran Dark Sun, we *did* use the environmental rules. I wanted the players to have to think of factors like how far could they get in the wilderness, were there oasis they could use, etc. That kind of stuff also made them vulnerable to plot hooks etc......ie. in battle your waterskins were destroyed or lost, you're 80 miles from anywhere, you're thirsty, do you venture to that fort you see on the horizon where there will be water, but also slavers or whatever?d And it definitely made the world harsher. Yeah, some players made use of magic to minimize the problems, but IIRC, not everyone could create water...wasn't it only clerics of water?

Those rules really rooted the PCs in the world. I've always liked that. But then, I also don't like games where a PC is carrying 4 swords, a spare suit of armor, a backpack with 12,000 gp in it, and 13 magic items, but he doesn't have a bedroll or a single piece of food, even though he's 4 days walk from civilization. To me, that's far, far too gamist, I guess.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

What mostly makes the DB's weird in my mind is the breath weapon. Dragons in Dark Sun aren't especially known for breathing fire, but are known for powerful mystical abilities, so re-fluffing dragon breath as "destructive magic burst" should be a nice solution.

But yeah, DB's as Dray makes a lot of sense.

Didn't The Dragon have a breath weapon of superheated sand that scoured flesh from bone, and melted steel? So it's not flame, but....

I think the Dray had a breath weapon, but I don't know what it was.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

From a certain perspective, it makes perfect sense. But the Dray were revealed with Dregoth's rising. Dregoth reappeared on the scene after the Prism Pentad was concluded . . . so if 4e Dark Sun is a pure "original boxed set" timeline reset, then we shouldn't have dray around. Dregoth created the dray, with The Dragon destroyed from events in the Prism Pentad novels Dregoth makes his play to conquer the Tablelands, sending the dray out to infiltrate neighboring city-states.

However, 4e Dark Sun primarily takes the original boxed set as a thematic/flavor point, then takes the best of the revised era creations (dray, life-shaping artifacts, shadowcasting) and blends them into the original timeline in an appropriate way, then we're not talking about a true-reset . . . but something altogether different.

Either the dray are no longer tied to Dregoth (interesting possibilities), or Dregoth is no longer in hiding from The Dragon and other Sorcerer Kings at the original timeline (I hope this is not the case), or Dregoth is still in hiding but has sent his dray to the surface earlier than the 2e Dark Sun timeline risking the Dragon's premature discovery of his existence (not a good idea, IMO) . . . or something else?

It could very easily be explained away similar to how Drow have been handled in the past. Here are the rules for how to play XYZ character....but keep in mind that the character is basically a freak, an exception.....there aren't many of his kind openly revealing themselves in the campaign world.

Banshee

 

[D.Shaffer]

The feywild doesnt seem that horrible a fit to me, although your mileage may vary. I've always seem the Feywild as Nature 'turned up to 11', an exageration of the natural world. The Athasian Feywild would thus be even MORE dangerous to the unprepared individual and as the Athasian natural order is rather broken, the feywild is more so. Carnivorous, desert plants bigger, and more savage then the norm, sandstorms that can scour iron in minutes, silt that actively seeks out others to aphixiate, all a brutal exageration of stuff PC's already deal with. There are no verdant fields, no relief in the Athasian Feywild, just slow, agonising death for those unfortunate enough, or stupid enough to cross over.

And preciding over it all, murderous fey who've had to adapt to the changed land, been driven insane over it, and seek compensation in blood, often literally. I rather like the idea of vampiric Eladrin who have developed a taste for blood as a outgrowth of the lands thirst for more water.

 

[amysrevenge]

I rather like the idea of vampiric Eladrin who have developed a taste for blood as a outgrowth of the lands thirst for more water.

Now HERE's a guy who can re-fluff 4E stuff into Dark Sun.

For the record, I am a big fan of the notion of the Feywild having already been "used up" as a primo source for defiling magic (possibly with isolated pokets of green still existing here and there, fiercely guarded by fey protectors), and thus existing in a much worse state than even Athas itself.

Not as sure what to do about the Shadowfell though.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've always seem the Feywild as Nature 'turned up to 11', an exageration of the natural world.

Well, for me, a significant part of Dark Sun's appeal is that the "natural world," in effect, doesn't exist. Nature is broken. Nothing is natural. "Natural" would not have involved planet-wide defiling with arcane magic. There is nothing natural about any of Dark Sun's environments. There is nothing to turn up to 11. The dial, as it were, has blown up. It's just stuck on this weird distortion and fluctuates at it's own volume.

What would a Feywild offer that Athas itself couldn't offer? Why can't you have whatever brutal hellscape you imagine being in the feywild, on Athas itself? Why do I need to go to a different world (in a setting that is cut off from different worlds) to experience the ravages of the environment (in a setting that has a ravaging environment)?

As an example:

I rather like the idea of vampiric Eladrin who have developed a taste for blood as a outgrowth of the lands thirst for more water.

Why can't that be anyone in Dark Sun? Why do we need an adjacent world where there's a specific race of this (who also happen to be great wizards, and who step in between planes like crossing the road)?

I mean, neat ideas, I just don't see why there's a need for the Feywild to realize these ideas, especially when the existence of some "nearby plane of nature" would fly in the face of two of Athas's most interesting setting elements (for me): it's unnatural, and it's not really connected to other planes.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Hmm, my Fey would take a Dune approach to it. Have them be obsessed with body-water. Shedding a tear for instance during a agreement shows a sign of commitment, to give a random example. Takes the odd items fey obsess over and gives it a Dark Sun twist.

For Shadowfell, hmm... Well I always imagined in my own personal games that the sun is what caused everything, it is beginning to die so it is going through fantastical change. So it is gaining massive sun-spots to turn black, sending off solar flares, radiation (fantasy style, thus the cause of mutations, psionics and all that) increased heat and mass, etc.

The Shadowfell then is one where it finally went KABLAM! it is a burnt husk of a world, with a softly glowing white dwarf-esque star is what remains of the sun. The torn apart atmosphere keeps it hot thanks to less protection.

Speaking of which, perhaps in my one the Feywild is facing yet another different kind of star change *ponders*

 

[Somebloke]

Hang on.

Didn't the haflings live in some verdant, gorgeous rainforest area- nature turned up to 11- that was a) almost utterly inaccessable and b) horribly dangerous?

Wouldn't this do as a Feywild substitute?