D&D General It's Magic, You Know

[Micah Sweet]

Let's say we could no longer use Vancian Magic (I'm sure there are homebrews like this). What sort of spell system might folks see replacing it and why?

For me I tend to like spell points and something like Ars Magica where a person can combine an "act" with something to be acted on. "Create Water" "Create Fire", etc. I think it allows for a lot of useful spell creation without having to memorize particular spells nor explain why someone has to continuously relearn them.

I can get behind a spell point system. I also like the idea of ritual.magic as the rule rather than the exception, complete with longer casting time, multiple participants, special components and calling upon dark forces, etc.

 

[TwoSix]

This is my favorite- DCC magic is wonderfully weird.

Beyond the complexity, I really like how DCC turns pretty much every spell into its own adventure hook. You could spend a session just dealing with the mishap roll on a spell.

The other system I'm aware that does something similar is the ritual spells in Beyond the Wall.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I really like the idea of every spell being a unique creation, made by the caster or found and incorporated into the casters repotoire through transliteration and study. So there's no such thing as a generic "fireball" that anyone can learn once they're a third year, but there might be a "Micah's Incredibly Handsome Spheres of Flame" that he personally researched.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I wouldn't want that for a general game; if the spell can become the focus of an adventure, it becomes a distraction from the rest of the game and other players.

It'd be cool for a game about that, like a Wizard School setting or something though.

That's the deal with a lot of magic systems: they can be excellent for setting-specific uses, but so many of them aren't really generalists.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I wouldn't want that for a general game; if the spell can become the focus of an adventure, it becomes a distraction from the rest of the game and other players.

It'd be cool for a game about that, like a Wizard School setting or something though.

That's the deal with a lot of magic systems: they can be excellent for setting-specific uses, but so many of them aren't really generalists.

That's true. Any of D&D's permutations are probably better (if perhaps less fun) from a generalist perspective.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That's true. Any of D&D's permutations are probably better (if perhaps less fun) from a generalist perspective.

I very much disagree. Vancian Casting is super-proprietary and doesn't really fit any other kind of caster fantasy than D&D's.

Spell Points are the most generalist system I'm aware of aside from wholly bespoke spell creation like you can do in GURPS or HERO.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I very much disagree. Vancian Casting is super-proprietary and doesn't really fit any other kind of caster fantasy than D&D's.

Spell Points are the most generalist system I'm aware of aside from wholly bespoke spell creation like you can do in GURPS or HERO.

Fair enough. I'm not.married to Vancian for D&D or anything else. Just used to it I guess.

As I said above I do like spell points. They're more versatile, and they make sense for psionics too.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Fair enough. I'm not.married to Vancian for D&D or anything else. Just used to it I guess.

As I said above I do like spell points. They're more versatile, and they make sense for psionics too.

Honestly? 3.5 psionics has a lot of what I'd want in a general magic system with the augment system.

Mix that with 5e Warlock invocations and we could be cooking.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Honestly? 3.5 psionics has a lot of what I'd want in a general magic system with the augment system.

Mix that with 5e Warlock invocations and we could be cooking.

That all sounds great actually. I really like both those systems.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I'm slowly working on my own system and in the last month I've thought about magic. Right now, I'm leaning more towards having a chance to fail casting the spell that's based on an exhaustion level. The exhaustion level goes up with every spell cast so it becomes harder and harder. Higher level spells increase the DC to hit. I prefer an approach like this to just having a limited amount of points.

I dunno. I hate wasting actions, let alone spending energy/slots on something that fails. If the chance is so low that it is rare, that might as well just be represented by the attack roll/saving throw mechanics. If the chance is significant, that would discourage me from even playing such a character.

And I really can't stand spell points. Ever since 2e Spells and Magic and any Psionic point pool mechanic. Being able to cast double the amount of low-level spells, or double the higher-level spells, breaks the balance. Spell points can either be broken for those that know how to plan and optimize, or be a trap for those who are more casual and don't dwell on efficiency of spending points. Spell points can create a greater caster gulf between different player types, in addition to broadening the gulf between casters and martials even more. People keep saying it is great, but I have never seen a game that has successfully presented such a system that everyone at the table was happy with.

I guess I like the limitations of spell slots. You have X opportunities in a day (spell slots) to find solutions to your challenges, and you have N tools to choose from to deliver those solutions (spell list).