D&D (2024) Its till just me or is the 2024 MM heavily infused by more 4e influences?

[mamba]

The Companions, right from the outset, were absolutely dripping with magic items - at 5th level, every single character had multiple magic weapons, magic armor, and even artifact level magic items and the modules were absolutely chock-a-block filled with magical treasure.

Absolutely dripping is 1 or 2 magic items at 5th level?

Tanis, 5th Level Half Elf Fighter
Equipment: leather armor +2, longsword +2 (dmg 1-8/1-12), bow and quiver with 20 arrows (dmg 1-6), 2 daggers (dmg 1-4/1-3)

Tasslehoff, 4th Level Kender Thief
Equipment: leather armor, small shield, hoopak (treat as combination bullet sling (dmg 2-5/2-7) and +2 jo stick (dmg 1-6+2/1-4+2), dagger (dmg 1-4/1-3)

Caramon, 6th Level Human Fighter
Equipment: ring mail armor, small shield, longsword (dmg 1-8/1-12), spear (dmg 1-6), dagger (dmg 1-4/1-3)

Raistlin, 3rd Level Human Magic-user
Equipment: Staff of Magius (+3 protection, +2 to hit (dmg 1-8, continual light (1 /day), feather fall (1 /day))

Goldmoon, 5th Level Human Cleric
Equipment: Blue Crystal Staff (known properties: heals on touch, does extra damage when used as a weapon), leather armor, a sling +1

Riverwind, 5th Level Human Ranger
Equipment: leather armor, small shield, longsword +2, shortbow and quiver of arrows, hunting knife +1

Sturm, 6th Level Human Fighter
Equipment: chain mail armor, two handed sword +3 (dmg 1-10/3-18), dagger (dmg 1-4/1-3)

Flint, 4th Level Dwarf Fighter
Equipment: studded leather armor, small shield, 2 hand axes +1 (dmg 1-6/1-4), dagger (dmg 1-4/1-3)

 

[Hussar]

Yup, because that's their STARTING equipment. Try what they look like by the end. +3 dragonslayer sword. Magic armor galore. Hell, at one point you can find a Holy Avenger as a random treasure.

Look, like I said, it will really depend on whether or not you experienced DL through the modules or through the books. The books and the modules present a VERY different setting.

 

[mamba]

Yup, because that's their STARTING equipment.

you are starting at 5th level too though... as to what you can find in an adventure vs what you do find... don't count all the magic items in the adventure. WotC still recommends you overstock for that reason

 

[Hussar]

you are starting at 5th level too though... as to what you can find in an adventure vs what you do find... don't count all the magic items in the adventure. WotC still recommends you overstock for that reason

Yeah, I've seen this argument before and it never really follows. When 99% of the treasure is in the areas that are most likely to be found by the party, the odds of missing magic items is extremely slim. This is well trod ground and it's unlikely to result in a productive discussion.

The point is, as I keep repeatedly pointing out, how you view DL will be VERY different if you actually PLAYED DL or you just read it. I actually PLAYED the modules, unlike the vast majority here. I've run them multiple times with different groups. And, from my experience, DL is very much NOT a low magic setting. So, is your experience running/playing the modules different, or are you speaking as someone who has read the setting but never actually played it?

 

[mamba]

So, is your experience running/playing the modules different, or are you speaking as someone who has read the setting but never actually played it?

played the first few, not the whole campaign. I did not call it a low magic setting, it is not. I said the edition was lower magic than 5e is. Half the races in 5e are magical right out of the gate, the classes are more magical too.

 

[Hussar]

played the first few, not the whole campaign. I did not call it a low magic setting, it is not. I said the edition was lower magic than 5e is. Half the races in 5e are magical right out of the gate, the classes are more magical too.

Again, it is all in how you define "lower magic". I'd 100% agree lower caster magic. Totally. Lower magical setting? Kinda sorta. At a certain point, it's two Smurfs arguing who is more blue. D&D has never really been "low magic", in the "sword and sandal" type story. The average 1e or 2e setting has far more available magic than you'd see in a dozen Conan stories.

But, yeah, if we define lower magic in terms of casting? Oh, absolutely. LIke I said earlier, in 1e you could go entire encounters without any spells being cast. 5e? It's pretty rare to see a single round with no spells being cast. And I noticed the shift in players too. Every problem gets solved by throwing more spells at it, simply because the group as a whole just has SO MUCH magic available. A 5th level 1e group probably only had two casters, one of which was a cleric so most of their spells would be tied into healing. And the wizard only had 6 spells per day, total.

So, sure. I've always criticized the Harry Potterification of D&D in 5e.

 

[Echohawk]

I don't get the impression that D&D settings have gotten more inherently more magical as time progressed. There are a lot of magic items in the loot for early adventures, probably more than we see in modern adventures. (An audit of all the magical treasure to be found in, say, Castle Ravenloft from edition to edition would be an interesting exercise.)

However, more recent D&D books do seem to encourage a far more magic-heavy play style. And that, of course, will make it feel as if the settings that games take place in are more magical even if the number of NPC spellcasters and magic items hasn't really changed that much.

 

[mamba]

I've always criticized the Harry Potterification of D&D in 5e.

it’s what I am bouncing off of the most

 

[MonsterEnvy]

it’s what I am bouncing off of the most

And it's still not anymore that than 3 or 4e was. And 2024 is not that anymore than 2014 was.

 

[Hussar]

it’s what I am bouncing off of the most

Again, this is a fight we lost years ago. This is apparently what people want. 3e went a long way in this direction - particularly later era 3.5 with things like at will spells for casters (I forget what they called it - but, so long as you had a spell slot uncast, you could at will certain spells). 4e tried to split the difference by allowing the game to be played without any obvious magical effects (the success of this effort is a determination to be made by the reader) and then 5e went all in with casting.

Like was said, if you want a non-caster D&D, you have a choice of like 2 classes. Even low magic means you have to strip out about half of the PHB. And as 5e has gone forward, they've only upped the level of magic with feats that grant outright spell effects, races that can cast spells and most classes having access to spells of one kind or another.

It's something I've long disliked about 5e. Mostly because it makes the game SOOO finicky. Every freaking round having to spend time with casters placing their area effects just right, then someone else uses a spell that hasn't been seen in a while, so, we have to go back and check the rules, then the third player is back to placing the spell in exactly the right place. Meanwhile the poor non-caster player is sitting there with a thumb in, waiting to make those two attack rolls and a move.

Yes, I'm taking a break from D&D for a while... why do you ask?