I've experienced D&D4

[Bullgrit]

My group has been satisfied with D&D3, so we didn't feel a need to immediately adopt/upgrade/change over to the latest edition when it was first released. I bought the Player's Handbook, and read most of it, but it didn't turn me on. There was a feel with what I read that, well, was problematic.

But I reserved passing judgment until I got around to actually playing it. This reserve is why I've never commented on D&D4 before, here on ENWorld. I had nothing substantial or fair to say about it with having only just read it (not even the entire system).

Well, now I've played it. And the feel I got from reading the game is revealed as true for me in the play of the game.

Now, I've written tales and reviews of my game play here at ENWorld before (my latest was my experience with Basic D&D), so it seems only natural that I'd do the same with my experience with D&D4. But. . .

My true feeling from reading and playing the game is negative, and inflammatory. I don't dislike the game, (it seems to be a decent system), but there is one thing, one phrase that comes to my mind to describe my feelings on it.

Of my group, I'm not the only one who has this feeling. But, everyone likes the game well enough, apparently, that we're going to play a few more game sessions to at least finish the adventure module. I've got no problem with that. But to play more than this, well, my feelings on the new edition are an obstacle.

Unless my feelings somehow change through more play, I'll go back to my no-comment stance with D&D4. If you want to know the phrase that presents my feelings, you can go to the "Geeky Stuff" part of my blog and read it. But because ENWorld is a site specifically for the latest edition of D&D, I shall not reveal it here. That would be rude and inflammatory. (And I'd appreciate no one quoting it here.)

For the record, I'm not posting this post to tease or advertise, though I'm aware it could look that way. I come to ENWorld to talk about my gaming experiences -- about my D&D experiences specifically. Some people seem interested in my experiences. I've had long discussions about my D&D3, AD&D1, and BD&D experiences. To not mention some game experience feels kind of weird, like holding something in that I would normally and naturally talk about.

So I'm mentioning that I've written elsewhere about the experience to satisfy my need to talk about it, but out of respect for the forum's topic and raison d'être, I'll not go into detail, or troll.

Bullgrit

 

[Weregrognard]

*Reads blog post*

 

[Lhorgrim]

The last paragraph of the post on your blog is, without a doubt, the funniest thing I have read all day.

While my experience is a bit different from yours, I think your explanation of your feelings was very clear and succinct.

So, what system will you be using after you complete your 4E run?

 

[Keefe the Thief]

snip

Bullgrit

I have an opinion about the word you used on your blog and which you don´t want to write here for fear of inciting a flamewar. However, because i don´t want to incite a flamewar either, i hid my opinion on the internet, and won´t provide a link.

Suffice to say, i disagree with your assessment - a new edition should feel like a new edition, otherwise what´s the point.

I have additional feelings and thoughts on this topic, but i´m afraid i hid those somewhere on the Information Superhighway as well.

Kudos, however, for trying the game out.

 

[Kimyou]

You are right, the game's different. It'll feel alien. Initially, at least.

The great thing about 4E is how easy it is to make memorable encounters. It is a DMs playground. The monster creation rules are delightful and it much easier to plan a battleground with more oomph to it (because players have much less incentive to stay still).

The feel is different, granted, and it isn't the DnD of you're teenage years, but I wouldn't call it not DnD either.

The same has been said countless times when the third edition appeared. It's a new game, and it's a good one, with just as much potential, just focusing on different aspects.

As for the 4 to 6 powers per character to keep track of, it pays off to print power cards. I swear, makes all the difference. The nice thing about the power system is that it will never bloat to the point of a wizard's spellbook in 3.X. I don't have my book close by, but never will you have more than 20-ish powers.

I play both Pathfinder and 4E myself, and I find I prefer 4E when it comes to DMing, and when I'm gaming with the less rule-savvy people. Another of the boons of the new editions, for me anyways, is how hard it is to make a truly crappy build, unless you try really really hard. You won't get gimped because of a bad choice at some point (or just a "fits with my character" kind of choice), and thus lose some of the spotlight.

Honestly, I believe both systems to be equal in the hands of a DM who's playstyle fits with the game system. I also suggest playing around with the system a bit, create a monster or two, add some nice terrain features. 4E is subtle and sneaky about it, but it's actually a pretty flexible system.

 

[Stuntman]

Well, I've read your review about 4E and I feel it is a good honest and well written review.

I do agree that the feel of the game is different than in previous editions. I disagree on a few points namely 1st level characters. 4E tried to address some issues with 1st level characters and I personally am satisfied with it. Yeah, 4E level 1 characters don't feel like 3E level 1 characters. The reason is that they are not supposed to.

 

[interwyrm]

The blog mentions feeling overwhelmed with the number of actions at first level.

I see this in the opposite light. I miss playing a wizard in previous editions and having so many options for actions that I couldn't legibly write them all on my character sheet.

 

[Turtlejay]

At least you played it before you critiqued it. Many of the folks with the same opinion about it have judged it from just reading about it.

Of course, you went in to the game with your mind made up. I'm not sure any experience could change your mind if you had already decided what you had decided (that I won't repeat here).

If you really want to give it a shot, try playing with an experienced 4e DM, and have them play something other than a published module. Many of your points have more to do with how the game is played than the Rules as they appear in the book.

Jay

 

[Khairn]

You didn't profess an opinion until you gave 4E a try. And after you and your group played it, you discovered that it didn't meet your expectations. A lot of what you said is subjective but I can't say that I disagree with any of it.

As Lhorgrim already asked, I'd be interested in knowing what system your group will use after your 4E run is done.

 

[samursus]

First off I have to give credit for choosing to omit comments that you feel may have been inflammatory. Whether or not they actually wouldn't is moot... the intent counts a lot in my eyes.

Secondly, I can understand the "comment" that you expressed. I have felt it myself, and because I do really like 4e I spent some time analyzing it. And I came to the conclusion that no matter what 4e was, whether it was an extension of 3.5 or a d6 system, I would have had the same feeling.

Everyone has an edition that was their "Golden Age" edition. Maybe you were young and this was your first experience with RPGS. Maybe it was in college when you had a close group of buddies and played all the time. Maybe its when you and your SO got together with other couples and had a weekly game where great times were had by all. Point being, unless you are playing that edition still, the magic is in the memories, for me at least.

My Golden Age edition was BECMI and I was in my teens playing with my 2 brothers and 3 of their friends and 1 of mine. We tried once to go back and relive the magic, but it wasn't there anymore... the rules set now seemed restrictive and a bit bland... very little tactics.

Now I know many people still have the magic when playing their edition of choice. I suspect that these are the games who have managed to retain the situational/environmental conditions that these games became Golden in. These are those players in IMO that tend to be the most vocal defending their edition or denigrating other editions. Who could not feel a bit defensive when others who really didn't like said edition pointed out its flaws and insinuated your magic might be badwrongfun. In addition there is no new products and the rest of the D&D gaming world is moving away... where as there once was a time we were all brothers and sisters in the same "cult" of D&D.

These are just my observations and opinions, and are massive generalities with many exceptions I am sure. I do, however, believe the core concept to be true. This is the reason why players feel such an emotional response to edition comparisons... D&D has a very dear place in the hearts and minds of many players. It was key element at time in our lives when our imaginations soared and we vanquished evil or braved the unknown with a close group of friends. Those are the kinds of people attracted to Fantasy RPG's... and most of us are somewhat romantics at heart. And romantics are known for nostalgia...