I've finally figured out why 3rd edition bugs me

Sebastian Francis

First Post
I mean, I like it and all, but for the past 3 years it's been nagging at me. A feeling of unease, of discomfort. A feeling that something is fundamentally wrong. Then it hit me, tonight, when I was flipping through my AD&D 2e DM's Guide for nostalgia's sake.

FROM AD&D 2e DM's GUIDE:

"The first step in creating a spell scroll (not a protection scroll) is for the wizard or priest to know and be able to cast the appropriate spell--the desired spell must exist in his spell books. . . . If a wizard knows the spell, he can begin fabrication. His first step is to assemble the appropriate materials: quill, ink, and paper. These materials can't be commonplace items lest they mar the final product or be consumed by the very magical energies the wizard seeks to enscribe.

The quill used for each spell must be fresh and unused. Lingering energies of the spell just transcribed cling to the quill. If the quill were used again, these energies would flow and intermingle with later attempts, causing them to fail.

Furthermore, the pen can't be just an ordinary goose quill. It must be from a strange and magical creature, perhaps one appropriate to the nature of the spell (the feather of a cockatrice for a flesh to stone, etc.). The task of gathering the right quill can be an adventure in itself. . . .

The ink is the final consideration. . . . The ingredients could be simple--the ink of a giant squid mixed with the venom of a wyvern's sting, or the musk of a giant skunk brewed with the blood of a gorgon. They could also be complex in meaning--the tears of a crocodile and a drop of water from the bottom of the deepest ocean, or a drop of mead from the cup of King Thyas blended with the lamentations of the women from the funeral of a great hero."

--AD&D DM's GUIDE (p.85-86)



FROM D&D 3.0 DM's GUIDE:

"The character needs a supply of choice writing materials, the cost of which is subsumed in the cost for scribing the scroll--12.5 gp per level of the spell times the level of the caster. All writing implements and materials used to scribe a scroll must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for scribing each spell scroll no matter how many times she previously has scribed the same spell.

The creater must have prepared the spell to be scribed . . . and must provide any material components or focuses the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster's XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself. Likewise, material components are consumed when she begins writing, but focuses are not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused). The act of writing . . .

[sorry, I would have typed more, but I fell asleep at this point] :(

--D&D 3.0 DM's GUIDE (p.245)

And that, in a nutshell, is why 3rd edition is bugging me, even after playing it for three years.

The first passage reads like a fantasy role-playing game.

The second passage reads like an accounting text book.

Siiiiiiiigggghhh . . . :( :( :(

[Begin Gamer Identity Crisis]
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Sebastian Francis said:
The first passage reads like a fantasy role-playing game.

The second passage reads like an accounting text book.

Siiiiiiiigggghhh . . . :( :( :(

[Begin Gamer Identity Crisis]
No, actually the first passage reads like an in character description of how to write a scroll, and the second reads like a roleplaying game.

Seeing as how the first is totally devoid of rules and all...

Not to mention the fact that it introduces the question "why the bloody hell would anyone write a scroll if it's that difficult?"

My suggestion? Allow the PC's to collect the stuff to scribe scrolls with and give them a discount on xp or gold for having amazing components.
 


That's why it took forever to level up in 2nd edition. Instead of playing the campaign you had to spend 2 months reading to figure out how to do anything. :\
 

Grousing aside, though, we can agree that the 3rd edition rulebooks are a little lacking in the flavor department, right? I mean, I would've been thrilled if there'd been a page or two in each chapter devoted to explaining how the rules of the game fit into the flavor of the story.
 

I get the same feeling, Sebastian. Reading the 2e Monstrous Manual, I feel like I'm reading a book written about monsters... reading the 3e Monster Manual, I feel like I'm reading the rules BEHIND monsters.

Now I'm not saying that I dislike the Third Edition books, but I almost wish they had added side-bars with that sort of Second Edition flavor as options.

For example, there would be the base rules for making scrolls, right? And then there'd be an OPTIONS tab that would include, "To add flavor to your character or campaign, you can make the rules more interesting. Instead of the GP/XP requirement, characters can instead..." and a more interesting, flavorfull version would follow.

Oh well... at least we have the 2e Books to look back on for inspiration!
 

I understand what your getting at Sebastian. While I stopped playing 2E years and years before 3e, and I do think that 3e is a much better GAME, I do miss that certain feel that 2e gave me for so long, it was a little more...inspiring?
 

Tsunami said:
For example, there would be the base rules for making scrolls, right? And then there'd be an OPTIONS tab that would include, "To add flavor to your character or campaign, you can make the rules more interesting. Instead of the GP/XP requirement, characters can instead..." and a more interesting, flavorfull version would follow.

That's what your imagination is for! :p :D

A little bit of flavor could be a great thing in moderation but what Sebastian posted just kept going forever. I'd be really unhappy if I read 2 pages of flavor text on how to do something that takes 2 sentences to explain.
 

Yes, this is a great example for the differences in style :). The old description sets a wonderful atmosphere and makes the writing of a scroll something special. It even makes my mind wander through lots of potential adventures connected to this "simple act".

Anyway, the 3E rule is much clearer. It keeps you from figuring out the costs of scribing scrolls yourself. But I feel similar as you; reading the stuff can be very boring.

I don't know who wrote these rules for fabricating scrolls, but I have this kind of problem with most of the stuff Monte Cook writes. The rules are clear and sound, but it's hard to figure out the brilliant ideas behind the completely dry writing that makes me fall asleep most of the times. It took me several attempts until I finally appreciated AU (great book, if you manage to stay awake :D).
 

The replies to this thread demonstrate the difference between role-players and war-gamers. I'm sure you can figure out who is who.
 

Remove ads

Top