I've finally figured out why 3rd edition bugs me

[MerricB]

Well, I don't know Eberron firsthand, but all I heard reminds me more of standard D&D with trains and sentient golems *shrug*. It's nowhere as different as, e.g., Dark Sun, a 2E setting.

You'd be surprised. The common availability of low-level magic integrated into the setting really changes things. It also makes a lot more sense - I know Gary Gygax was musing last year about how he really didn't take into account the effect of druidical and clerical magic on crop yields - and thus the prosperity of nations.

Forgotten Realms during 2E times was doing things that weren't really reflected in the core books, so I don't think it's quite a valid comparison.

Traditional D&D (Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms) makes magic mysterious and not available to the common folk. FR has a much greater number of high-level wizards than Greyhawk, but your average merchant isn't going to have any magic available to him.

In Eberron, that's changed. Primarily because of the Dragonmarks - there are a significant number of people with one or two minor abilities. Thus, House Sivis has the Mark of Scribing - and arcane mark can be cast 1/day by many gnomes in that house. Suddenly, the people of the world have access to a way of saying "this document came from me" that can't be easily counterfeited. It changes the way the world operates in fundamental ways, and open up new opportunities.

1E and 2E make magical tasks mysterious and difficult - and actually go against the way the world is presented in the D&D adventures! Why are there so many magical swords and rings in the D&D world? It makes sense that magic is rare - but it's not backed up by the treasure available to the adventurers. The way the game worked wasn't back up by the settings.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

I suppose that's why AD&D 2E had so few settings, and all of the existing ones were the same .

I do hope that's tongue in cheek... (starts counting the settings in 2E...)

Cheers!

 

[rounser]

I know Gary Gygax was musing last year about how he really didn't take into account the effect of druidical and clerical magic on crop yields - and thus the prosperity of nations.

Hmmm. Given the exceptionally high living standards and freedom of D&D commoners when compared to their real world medieval counterparts, I think there's a reasonable argument that they have been incorporated (entirely accidentally, and purely because of modern anachronisms being applied).

 

[Psion]

Not to mention the fact that it introduces the question "why the bloody hell would anyone write a scroll if it's that difficult?"

Just so. If I am going to be venturing to gather water from the deepest oceans, I want some payoff!

I'll note how few players I ever had scribe scrolls in 1e: 0.

My suggestion? Allow the PC's to collect the stuff to scribe scrolls with and give them a discount on xp or gold for having amazing components.

Which is essentially the power component rule in a nutshell.

 

[Zappo]

Why should the core books have flavor text? They are rulebooks. I want them to feature complete, usable and easy-to-find rules. I look for flavor in the campaign setting books and in my own mind. Anyone who says that 3E lacks in flavor may not have realized that D&D isn't composed of the three core books only.

 

[Liquidsabre]

I don't know if that was meant to be sarcastic or not, but if not, I agree with it 100%.

Not sarcastic in the slightest, I believe in this whole-heartedly. If you want to look for flavor now-a-days in the 3.x era of D&D one must look to Campaign Settings. There you find fllavor in abundance, just look at some of them like Midnight, Eberron, Ravenloft, etc. all just oozing spectacular flavor. The core rule books provide literally the rules-backbone for quality game play within these environs. I love it.

 

[Psion]

I don't know if that was meant to be sarcastic or not, but if not, I agree with it 100%.

Likewise. The 1e DMG was a nice starting point, but now I have used it for many years and I've come a long ways, going back to some of it's notions would feel so recycled to me. It's time to stretch your creative wings and make your own reasons for things being the way they are.

(Though in some ways, the classics are the best. My Gith still strongly resemble the originals. Non-psionic gith? Pshaw!)

 

[Psion]

It is OKAY that they are. I don't think it's the book's JOB to give me atmosphere, flavor, "fluff", feeling.

It's MY job.

HUZZAH!

<cat-calls>

 

[diaglo]

i agree.

my hat of d02 knows no limits.

 

[Desdichado]

Surely there's some happy medium. I've read Econometrics textbooks that are more interesting than the 3e corebooks. While I can appreciate the desire (in fact, I share it) to remove the type of fluff that the example in post #1 shows, I'd think the books could at least be readable.