I've finally figured out why 3rd edition bugs me

[Voadam]

I still use my 2e core rules CD for flavor text on core monsters. Habitat, ecology, and society were much more fleshed out back then and provided more hooks for me to use than the raw combat stat emphasis of the current set. And I can get the color pictures off the WotC site for the current incarnations.

So while I like the rules of 3.5 creatures, I prefer a bunch of 2e descriptions of the same monsters.

 

[Scribble]

I agree with the happy medium people. I'd like to see the third edition rules but with a little fluff in there to "set the mood"

What really annoyed me about 3e was the lack of a "what is roleplaying?" intro...

 

[KB9JMQ]

I liked the flavor text of the older editions.
Not so much as a crutch but as examples of how to put flavor into my game.
Which as a beginner DM I needed.
It makes me wonder if the lack of fluff/flavor examples in the PHB and DMG make it harder for new DMs to add those parts to their own game.

 

[Psion]

I still use my 2e core rules CD for flavor text on core monsters. Habitat, ecology, and society were much more fleshed out back then and provided more hooks for me to use than the raw combat stat emphasis of the current set. And I can get the color pictures off the WotC site for the current incarnations.

So while I like the rules of 3.5 creatures, I prefer a bunch of 2e descriptions of the same monsters.

I never thought about using it this way. The thing, to me, is that I understand what a dark elf or a hobgoblin or a beholder is.

New imports to the core rules I do frequently find myself either making things up for or seeking other sources. A prime example are nightshades, which came from Mystara (which, after 2e, I never followed closely).

 

[Rel]

I came back to D&D for 3e, because I finally saw improvements worth changing for. The rules are much more elegant, IMO.

Same here. The (relative) simplicity of the rules makes for a fairly smoothly running game. In fact, I'd argue that the flavor that is included in the PHB and DMG goes a long way toward muddying the waters on what the rules really are. How many times have we seen arguments in the Rules forum where somebody says, "The rule says...but the flavor text seems to imply..."?

But that doesn't mean that I think the game should lack flavor and I resent the implication made by some that wanting the rules presented in a more "bare bones" fashion makes me a "wargamer" and not a "roleplayer". What I think is that the WotC team missed a golden opportunity to publish a separate "Flavor Guide" where they could give a few options for flavor to go along with some of the rules. I think that such a tool would be invaluable to newbies and handy for us veterans to draw new ideas from as well.

Unfortunately we'll probably never see the game laid out in this format (i.e. Rules Compendium, Flavor Guide) because the designers are, and probably will remain, married to the PHB/DMG paradigm. But at least they've broken away from the "give you the Flavor without much in the way of Rules" mode of 1E, etc. I'm in the same camp as Psion: Nobody ever even tried to scribe a scroll in our 1E games. And yet they were laying scattered throughout every adventure ever released.

 

[JoeGKushner]

How the hell do you put women's funeral lamentations in an ink? And isn't crocodile tears and water from an ocean just, you know, water, and not ink? And isn't the nature of the writing what's magical, not the ink? And isn't it immoral to harvest the blood of a creature with human intelligence for ink?

I'll take the accountant textbook, very much.

This was the mythological feel of the game. I remember one time players needed the 'Breath of a Mountain' to complete some magic item they were working on, I think a ring of elemental command, so they had to find a place in a mountain range that simulated breathing. They tried a volcano, and a few other locals before I decided that the hissing between two peaks equalled breath. Fun stuff.

Back in the day, magic items usually weren't made by PC's unless heaven and earth moved. Heck, I remember you used to GET xp for finding magic items and treasure.

 

[Desdichado]

Dude. I want your econonics textbooks.

Well, keep in mind that I have a degree in Economics; I may just be more interested in it than most people.

But yeah, the core books were actually, extremely difficult for me to read. I think the MM was the only one I actually did read more or less cover to cover.

 

[Doug McCrae]

There is still some fluff in the core rulebooks - the illustrations, the general class descriptions that precede the game rule information in the PHB and spell names such as 'Mordenkainen's Lucubration'.

 

[Voadam]

But yeah, the core books were actually, extremely difficult for me to read. I think the MM was the only one I actually did read more or less cover to cover.

I read the 3.0 PH cover to cover, and I was really angry that my first print pre-order was missing 32 pages from the combat section, it really delayed me figuring out AoOs for a while and reinforced that I had to look up every spell as they were being used because so many things had changed, like lightning bolts not being a back rank use spell anymore.

The 3.0 MM was neat for the mechanics, but the descriptive text really left me unsatisfied. Everyone pretty much seemed to be described as either vicious or "although normally mild mannered and peaceful, they are formiddable opponents when roused." and for some if there had not been a picture I would not have had a description for them at all.

I mostly used it as a reference book, looking up the stats of the ones I planned to use that night/adventure and using the srd more often than the book in planning things out ahead of time.

 

[diaglo]

What I think is that the WotC team missed a golden opportunity to publish a separate "Flavor Guide" where they could give a few options for flavor to go along with some of the rules. I think that such a tool would be invaluable to newbies and handy for us veterans to draw new ideas from as well.

i've been pestering the heck out of (T)Ed Stark for years now to produce:

The Complete Idiot's Guide to d02 Roleplaying.