WotC James Wyatt is on the Dungeons & Dragons Team Again

[tetrasodium]

Well, then never mind.

I do like tieflings and the idea of pre 4e ones but would it work if they expanded the idea into other species?

Maybe maybe not. My problem with 4e/5e tieflings is that they tie them all to a specific deity type individual who has no business existing in more than one setting let alone having an entire race of descendants in a setting violently in conflict.

Even if it were race A is descended from fiend A while race B from fond B it turns into problems. Not every setting even uses fiends in the same role let alone one compatible with the fr/planescape lore version.

 

[Hatmatter]

Maybe maybe not. My problem with 4e/5e tieflings is that they tie them all to a specific deity type individual who has no business existing in more than one setting let alone having an entire race of descendants in a setting violently in conflict.

Even if it were race A is descended from fiend A while race B from fond B it turns into problems. Not every setting even uses fiends in the same role let alone one compatible with the fr/planescape lore version.

Fair enough...but that is so easy to change. I simply saw that as a way of using established lore that goes way back to the Monster Manual of 1977 or earlier in order to provide an enriched imaginative experience.

 

[tetrasodium]

Fair enough...but that is so easy to change. I simply saw that as a way of using established lore that goes way back to the Monster Manual of 1977 or earlier in order to provide an enriched imaginative experience.

No its really not because the 4e/5e tiefling is player facing setting specific lore a gm of an incompatible setting needs to both remove from a player's brain as well as replace it with setting linked stuff. The whole process is easier said than done and prone to frustrations on both sides

 

[Scribe]

I do like tieflings and the idea of pre 4e ones but would it work if they expanded the idea into other species?

You mean planes touched for other lineages? If so, those already existed.

 

[Aldarc]

I mean, at your table you can have your character look cosmetically however they want. I don't see WotC kicking down Laura Bailey's door because her tiefling in Critical Role is blue instead of red!

On the contrary, I have a suspicion that Jester is a large reason tieflings had such a sizable presence in the art in Tasha's, and why they had so many hues...

I don't understand @Scribe's red skin tone criticism of 4e tieflings. The PHB 1 entry for Tieflings had a light tan skin tone so clearly "red" skin was never as monolithic as imagined. Even their horns come in different styles.

Throughout 4e, tiefling art show them in a variety of different colored skin tones: e.g., yellow, red, blue, purple, etc.

And likewise, the 5e tieflings brought over from 4e in the PHB also aren't initially depicted as red.

So once again, these complaints against

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I don't understand @Scribe's red skin tone criticism of 4e tieflings. The PHB 1 entry for Tieflings had a light tan skin tone so clearly "red" skin was never as monolithic as imagined. Even their horns come in different styles.

Spoiler

View attachment 133927

Throughout 4e, tiefling art show them in a variety of different colored skin tones: e.g., yellow, red, blue, purple, etc.

And likewise, the 5e tieflings brought over from 4e in the PHB also aren't initially depicted as red.

Spoiler

View attachment 133928

So once again, these complaints against

Funny enough, the PHB's tiefling looks more purple than red.

 

[JEB]

So was James Wyatt specifically responsible for the 4e lore for tieflings or something? Or has this thread just gone that far off the rails?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's also about what I would expect a 4e albino tiefling to look like. So how is this indicative of a return to pre-4e tieflings?

If you forget about the huge forehead with bull horns sticking out the side, sure. And it is not a "return to pre-4e tieflings" is an acknowledgment that not all tieflings look the same. You can still have a tiefling with massive bull horns if you want (as you always could).

 

[TheSword]

Another to be fair about the 4e lore and cosmology... If it had just been presented as its own (even if the default) setting, like Eberron, rather than having it hamfistedly (in some cases) retrofitted into other settings and rewriting a bunch of default monster lore then I would have been much more amenable to it. If 4e had at least presented the Great Wheel cosmology as an option in the DMG and kept it for the Forgotten Realms (and implicitly to the other older settings that didn't get published) and did not blow up the settings just to cram in new lore, it probably would have rubbed some people the wrong way much less. I do like the addition of the Feywild and the Shadowfell to the GW in 5e, so it's not like they couldn't have made any retcon changes, I just believe it was a bridge too far with what they did. That said, I fully support Nentir Vale and its cosmology being released as an independent setting for 5e.

I totally agree. 4th edition literally tried to reinvent the Wheel. I’m glad it got canned and we were able to return to a more nuanced system that is better placed to benefit from what went before. Rather than lore that throws all that out in favour of a clean slate. 4e reminds me so much of GW’s Age of Sigmar.

I should be clear I’m talking about the lore not the rules.

 

[tetrasodium]

So was James Wyatt specifically responsible for the 4e lore for tieflings or something? Or has this thread just gone that far off the rails?

Wotc/hasaro corporate put a lot of pressure on the team to make things into unique IP that was trademarkable during 4eprobably not