JollyDoc's Shackled City

[Joachim]

A couple of quick points...

Caine is the glue that holds the party together, IMO. With Jules, his lantern archon familiar, he has an awesome array of buffs that can truly even the oddds. The battle with the Eryines and Zenith Splitershield are evidence of this.

Don't get me wrong. I was making an observation/generalization based on your past characters. But you have personally made the comment to me that you think that Ajax would have problems dealing damage, plus I know your penchant for two-handed wielders verses one-handed wielders with a shield.

On average, Pez did 15 pts per hit. On average, Ajax does 10 1/2. At 8th level, they had the same to hit, plus or minus 1. Comparably, Pez had a base AC of around 26, without spells. Ajax has a 33, without aura. On a d20, that is a difference of 35%. I believe they both have/had identical hp (66) and DR. Pick your poison, I guess. 50% more damage output verses being hit 1/3 of the time less. Having played the former (Gardrid), I choose the latter, and I can always wield a one-handed weapon two-handed when I need to do extra damage (like when Ajax killed the Eryines).

Now granted, Pez had a wide range of spells to choose from, while Ajax has many spells he can use multiple times per day. Divine Power = ROCK for Pez. Ajax version of Divine Power is Aid, which is nice but not ROCK. But See Invis and Invis are pretty nice for Ajax (both used to good effect this past week).

I would agree with you about Caine being a good "glue" character. While he doesn't necessarily excel on his own, he allows the others around to excel. I have played similar characters in the past, and had a lot of fun doing that. But, getting back to the offense v. defense comment earlier, even you have said that this is very different from any type of character you have played in the past. Jules has earned his keep, too. You ought to be using the Touch Spell ability with him more often, btw...

Pardon all that, faithful readers. You have to understand that I got into D&D as an old war-gamer, and since 3.0 and 3.5 have come out, its hard to differentiate the two for me .

 

[Hammerhead]

The main contention between defense and offense is the rest of the party. For example, in a previous 3.0 game I played in, one character was extremely defensive. He had an Armor Class in the mid 30s, a Cloak of Displacement, high saves, Spell Resistance, etc. His offensive power was horrendous. Meanwhile, the rest of the party were very good at killing things, but not so good at avoiding attacks and spells.

Consequently, enemies would ignore the defensive monk and instead concentrated on finishing the rest of the party off. He was rarely attacked or hit with any spells, but his contribution to the group was virtually nil and a waste of any share of treasure or XP. Likewise, I'm sure an offensive character with very little defense would similarily be useless in a group of defensive ones.

Also, bear in mind that two-handed weapons are cheaper than the weapon and shield combination, until you can afford an Animated Shield.

 

[gfunk]

Jules has earned his keep, too. You ought to be using the Touch Spell ability with him more often, btw...

I will, more and more, but you understand my fear of course. You generally won't last very long with 22 hp and a 19 AC. Though the 10 DR/evil and magic certainly helps a lot, I don't want him to die and suffer a big XP hit.

Hammerhead,

I agree with your points for the most part. I think the reason Pez died was the party's inability to contribute to that particular encounter. Which is why I created Caine, to maximize the potential of my party members. It certainly lets them have more fun.

 

[Joachim]

I think the reason Pez died was the party's inability to contribute to that particular encounter. Which is why I created Caine, to maximize the potential of my party members. It certainly lets them have more fun.

(Gardrid + Fly) + Pez = Dead Eryines

 

[Neverwinter Knight]

My thought about offense/defense was that the party changed after the two last character deaths. Pez wasn't and Ajax isn't a tank. In the previous combats, I think (especially against a single, powerful enemy) a lot of the success came from the powerful offensive force of the tank Gardrid and the versertile Pez.
To me, offense vs. defense was decided in the favor of offense with 3E...

I have to get my hands on that module. I can't believe that a group lacking powergamers would have even a slim chance to survive. This does not sound balanced!

 

[Neverwinter Knight]

My thought about offense/defense was that the party changed after the two last character deaths. Pez wasn't and Ajax isn't a tank. In the previous combats, I think (especially against a single, powerful enemy) a lot of the success came from the powerful offensive force of the tank Gardrid and the versertile Pez.
To me, offense vs. defense was decided in the favor of offense with 3E...

I have to get my hands on that module. I can't believe that a group lacking powergamers would have even a slim chance to survive. This does not sound balanced!

 

[Angcuru]

I would have to agree with NK that Offense is greatly stressed in 3rd Ed while Def is pretty much left in the dust. You can take countless Feats and Prestige Class Abilities that buff your Offense beyond belief, but there is little you can do for your Defense beyond get some magic armor and a ring or two to pump up your AC, unless you go with Devas and Archons, like we have in this game.

 

[Zontag]

I can't believe that a group lacking powergamers would have even a slim chance to survive. This does not sound balanced!

I think the problem is that this module and the preceding one in the series where done using the 3.5 rules while the books were not out yet which means the designers probably didn't have access to the proper CR info. The CR for red dragons increased in 3.5 by one and they have guidelines in the 3.5 MM as to how to calulate the CR for advanced monsters, not having access to the books when the modules were designed probably ment the designers had to make CR assumptions based on the 3.0 values which probably explains why these modules are so nasty.

 

[Joachim]

I think the problem is that this module and the preceding one in the series where done using the 3.5 rules while the books were not out yet which means the designers probably didn't have access to the proper CR info. The CR for red dragons increased in 3.5 by one and they have guidelines in the 3.5 MM as to how to calulate the CR for advanced monsters, not having access to the books when the modules were designed probably ment the designers had to make CR assumptions based on the 3.0 values which probably explains why these modules are so nasty.

The most recent ones have been prepared using the 3.5 rules, and the last encounter we had this week was 2 CR 7's (so supposedly an equivalent EL 9 encounter), that as I said previously, would have punked four standard 8th level characters.

IMO, basing encounters on CR alone is not only a good judge. It really appears that the module designers took an approach with each adventure that said they wanted to get as much "bang" as they could get for their "buck" (i.e. "Which CR 7 monster is the most likely to nearly kill the entire party...ok, found it.")

 

[Neverwinter Knight]

The most recent ones have been prepared using the 3.5 rules, and the last encounter we had this week was 2 CR 7's (so supposedly an equivalent EL 9 encounter), that as I said previously, would have punked four standard 8th level characters.

IMO, basing encounters on CR alone is not only a good judge. It really appears that the module designers took an approach with each adventure that said they wanted to get as much "bang" as they could get for their "buck" (i.e. "Which CR 7 monster is the most likely to nearly kill the entire party...ok, found it.")

Yeah, there are CR7 monsters and there are CR7 monsters.

Thing is, as much as I love the design of the campaign, the balance issue should have come up and been corrected during play-testing.