2000AD Judge Dredd - Rapid Fire

[Judge Morbo]

Are there any rules regarding "rapid fire" with a lawgiver or a spitgun? How do you handle this?

Thanx in advance for your opionion / insight / help

 

[Morrus]

That’s basically the ‘auto’ trait. Lawgivers don’t have that mode.

 

[Judge Morbo]

hmm.....don't think this fits. If i use a spitgun or machinegun and don't use suppressive fire, this trait will do nothing. So if i have no one to protect with suppressive fire, i can do nothing with an automatic weapon. I am a perp and fire 100 bullets in a crowd....i just it 1 target

 

[Judge Morbo]

I think, it should be an area attack vs. vital defense of the targets....but how calculating the fire rate in relation to number of max targets? How much area can i spray with my bullets?

And by the way....how much bullets do you spend for suppressing fire?

 

[Morrus]

hmm.....don't think this fits. If i use a spitgun or machinegun and don't use suppressive fire, this trait will do nothing. So if i have no one to protect with suppressive fire, i can do nothing with an automatic weapon. I am a perp and fire 100 bullets in a crowd....i just it 1 target

It's the answer to your question. But you should certainly feel free to houserule your game!

 

[Judge Morbo]

ok....thanx anyway......but perhaps someone else has already made up a good playtested houserule for this

 

[Morrus]

Then you're looking at existing Spray and Stafe exploits, available to weapons with the auto trait.

 

[Judge Morbo]

excellent! thank you! I have overlooked that....these would be nice weapon traits for a houserule!

 

[Judge Morbo]

me again ok...in my game we use the Lawgiver MKII with a rapid fire mode (like in the movies and nearly all audio books). I use the unviersal exploits Morrus mentioned as weapon traits.....but there is one question coming from this...how would you handle damage, if i use rapid fire / Universal exploit "Spray" on just ONE target?

Any ideas for a good and playable houserule?

 

[Morrus]

So basically the effect you're going for is you want automatic weapons to do more damage? I mean, I don't think that would make for a better game, but if you're set on houseruing it that way, add an extra dice of damage.

 

[Judge Morbo]

Thnx for the idea....seems to be ok for me. I think it will be good and necessary to houserule rapid fire, as Dredd is using the feature very often and the MKII is rapid fire capable. So there has to be rule for rapid fire / Damage if my players fire lots of bullets in one perp / one vehicle/ one big ugly mutant.

 

[Morrus]

Thnx for the idea....seems to be ok for me. I think it will be good and necessary to houserule rapid fire, as Dredd is using the feature very often and the MKII is rapid fire capable.

Only in the movies. In the comics, the modes are as listed in the rulebook.

That said, what you're talking about is globally changing the rules for automatic weapons so that all weapons with the "auto" trait do more more damage. I think the result of that is that nobody will use anything but automatic weapons, as they'll be far better than anything else.

 

[Judge Morbo]

As i said...in most of the 2000AD audio books he uses rapid fire ...and he uses the rapid fire mode in the comics too ....

so if everything is based on the comics, than you have to stay with it. If you play in the old times with the MKI ok...no rapid fire...but we don't. So there has to be a rule for that. Everything else would be "unrealistic" ...even for a comic based RPG

For the "everyone will use it" theory....today any automatic weapon is better than semi automatic....does everybody (bad guys) use it? No....hard to get....not easy to hide etc.

I as a GM determine what weapons all the NPCs are using...so no problem to regulate that....if my judges kill every perp with uncountable amounts of bullets, they will have a date with the SJS...so no problem there too.

Nonetheless...rapid fire exists...with the MKII and with some perps...it has to be more dangerous than just the "supressing fire" effect from auto....so there has to be a rule for it. I don't think it will unbalance the game. I play RPG for about 25 years. I started to play Judge Dredd with the D20 rules and rapid fire was no problem there. Why should it be one with this ruleset?

 

[Morrus]

Well, OK then. I’m not trying to tell you what to do with your game.

 

[Irishrelief]

As i said...in most of the 2000AD audio books he uses rapid fire ...and he uses the rapid fire mode in the comics too ....

View attachment 114136

so if everything is based on the comics, than you have to stay with it. If you play in the old times with the MKI ok...no rapid fire...but we don't. So there has to be a rule for that. Everything else would be "unrealistic" ...even for a comic based RPG

For the "everyone will use it" theory....today any automatic weapon is better than semi automatic....does everybody (bad guys) use it? No....hard to get....not easy to hide etc.

I as a GM determine what weapons all the NPCs are using...so no problem to regulate that....if my judges kill every perp with uncountable amounts of bullets, they will have a date with the SJS...so no problem there too.

Nonetheless...rapid fire exists...with the MKII and with some perps...it has to be more dangerous than just the "supressing fire" effect from auto....so there has to be a rule for it. I don't think it will unbalance the game. I play RPG for about 25 years. I started to play Judge Dredd with the D20 rules and rapid fire was no problem there. Why should it be one with this ruleset?

I'll start with it's your game, and your interpretation is your own. However, concerning weapons, automatic fire has little use outside of squad support and suppression. For all the years I carried an M4 I never used it in a suppression manner. There are other crew served squad support weapons designed exactly to do that.

I want to point out that

For the "everyone will use it" theory....today any automatic weapon is better than semi automatic....does everybody (bad guys) use it? No....hard to get....not easy to hide etc.

is not an accurate portrayal of machine guns. In fact you can manufacture illegal machine guns for less than a few dollars. They can also be concealed to the same ease as any other weapon today.

If you look at the game rules for Auto (pg 99) you will see that they follow a similar pattern to real world usage today. You should also note that per page 103 there is some confusion as to the Lawgiver Mk I having the automatic trait, "All Lawgiver pistols have both the Automatic ID-Matched and Explosive Booby Trapped (3D6 damage) customisations." Spelling errors are as they appear in the book. Since the book doesn't have a customization named Automatic ID-Match but just ID-match and Booby Trap the argument has been made to me that there is a missing comma in the description. The counter argument has also been made that the word both implies only two (Booby Trap/ID-Match). The best part is you can make the determination as you see fit. If you want your judges to be able to provide a squad support element then go for it. If you take the tactical elements of combat into consideration the game is quite balanced (though I will admit I have at least one question each time I run a game without an answer as the books are not the most user friendly for answers).

As for my interpretation of your most recent question

how would you handle damage, if i use rapid fire / Universal exploit "Spray" on just ONE target?

That is already answered by the exploits. Spray uses up both actions and allows for one attack on an area, so no extra damage as you're getting to attack an area. Strafe similarly does this too, at the cost of one action and a limited area while having a set amount of damage (1d6). This follows the doctrine that wildly shooting a weapon in auto is not exactly good for accuracy or handling. Burst is a much more acceptable method of attacking as it provides an increased volume of fire while being manageable, and not having to deal with the biggest problem of crew served weapons, HEAT.

 

[Fargo]

My own interpretation of Dredd's use of "Rapid fire!" is that he's using both actions to attack rather than aiming.

 

[Morrus]

Yeah. It's not a Lawgiver setting called rapid fire in that panel. He's ordering people to fire rapidly.

I can't speak for audiobooks; but this game is specifically licensed from the comics, not from movies, audiobooks, the upcoming TV show, etc. We've been told the official Lawgiver settings, and we used them.