Judgement

[Alek]

Nathan a god moder? Hmm...not really in my opinion. ISRP lifetime wise he is *ancient* even if that only means like 5 years or so, he's an oldie, hes been around the block, been involved in a more or lesser degree in many of the major conflict storylines I've seen, as well as inumerable smaller conflicts. So he has got a right to be very powerful, imo at least.

Your freeform style usually seems to assume people are of the same mind as you and I, that such an incredibly powerful wizard doesnt quite have to go by the rules, and can bend and twist the magical forces of the world to their whim. Unfortunately lots of people dont like having one say simply "tears apart your magical protections by force after errecting a shield that repels nearly any spell" for example, because it seems like they are god moding, but I *think* all you were really trying to do has been speed up and streamline magical combat, instead of whipping out some obscure but powerful spell and having to discribe it in detail to the other player and/or link source materiel when they whine about it. Nothing I have seen nathan do has not been impossible while using a combination of spells, magical items or artifacts that are "by the rules" that are laying out there somewhere on the web, or on a bookshelf.

Personally I like it, speeds up and makes magical combat more interesting, and on the level of hand to hand combat as far as quick creativity and adaption goes.

But...and this is a big But...

None of it matters if your character is so powerful that nobody wants to RP with them simply because they trivialize any concievable problem that less powerful characters might have. It might seem like you are doing them a favor, but more often then not they are left going "uh...now what?" because they had ment for that problem to be long lasting and to have a greater impact upon that character and their aquaintences.

Time to end my rambling before I go completely off track, my suggestion nathan? Have him stripped of his power and wealth and start again say back at "level 10" or so, it can be pretty fun.

 

[Tharivious]

It's been too long since the days that I interacted with dear old Nathan, so I can't comment on the current incarnation. Good to see you're still around though.

Back in the day though, he always struck me as similar to the planeswalkers in Magic: The Gathering. Beyond mortal, larger than life, not quite human, that sort of thing. Powerful, absolutely; but he had his personal flaws too that balanced some of that out. We sparred on many occassions, and things went pretty fairly back then, fully freeformed with each character having an equal chance at success as I recall. Of course, those were agreed to spars done on friendly terms, and not all out conflicts, so that opinion may be somewhat skewed compared to a head-on combat situation.

It's been years though, so I can't help much about the present day opinions of him.

Now, a few things dropped in the thread that I feel like commenting on due to my blasted compulsiveness...

For example, I got it once, for using Mage Hand. You can lift upto five pounds with it. Okay, my Mage used it and ripped out a guy's heart, last I checked, not only is that under five pounds, but since Mage Hand only says you have to point at an object, within 25 feet +5 feet/2 levels, not that it has to be seen, targetting a being's heart is fully within the spells power. It's a level zero spell, and yet a unique use of the spell spurred the words God-Moder to be said. We won't get into the fact that the fight which this occured it, was a preplanned part of a storyline, including the Mage Handery.

No... just... no. A heart isn't a viable target, it's part of a creature, and as such, is patently not an object. That's close to thinking freedom of movement makes you immune to arcane spell failure in full plate in terms of wording abuse. But hey, if storylines allow it, go ahead - it's your thing, do what you want to do. By d20/D&D, however, it fails miserably. Besides, that would be about eight times better than a 5th level spell from the Book of Vile Darkness that specifically removes someone's heart (and that one allows a saving throw, while mage hand doesn't).

Your freeform style usually seems to assume people are of the same mind as you and I, that such an incredibly powerful wizard doesnt quite have to go by the rules, and can bend and twist the magical forces of the world to their whim.

This is unfortunately what leads to cries of godmode, and to lead newer (or less known) players to have a bad attitude toward veterans who play the "I've been here longer, so I'm better than you." card. Sure, have a broader range of powers, but that doesn't bypass freedom of destiny, and that doesn't excuse being invulnerable to anyone of lesser power. Freeform is a compromise, experience can play a part, sure, but there are other parts that experience just can't overwhelm.

The rest of what Alek said is spot on though.

 

[Drindin]

Just thought I'd note (to the Mage Hand thing)

Yes, a heart weighs less than five pounds. However, far more than five pounds of force are required to remove a heart, and not to mention the heart would weigh far more than five pounds if a person were to try to 'lift' it when it's still in the chest, since it would first have to be fully disconnected from the entirety of the respiratory system. So, HA!

 

[Silver_Shulad]

I dont understand why it has to be repeated and repeated, we are losing sight of the thread but damn if a spell came into the picture.

Thar/Drindin: The Magi already went over the use of the spell, lets just leave it alone and concentrate on the purpose of the thread

 

[Slyen]

And that's a realistic look upon it, let's face it, this is Dungeons and Dragons, boastings runs rampant with characters.

Interactive Story Role Playing (ISRP)
Freeform role-playing with more guidelines, and a defined setting.

First things first, where does it say that this is even close to D&D?

Now onto the topic of Nathan and god moding, from what I have seen he's not one. Sure my experiances have been limited and are a good three months atleast of being away but from what I have seen the character is by far not one.

Now true to the statement above, where does it say in the defination of ISRP that it is D&D? If it was we would be rolling dice like no tommorrow and people would quit due to the fact that don't want to play D&D. The reason why I bring this up is simple. I stated out one of my characters, who was the only one who had any contact to Nathan on his own, in D&D. Then he comissioned Nathan to make a enchanted dagger which essentially was a dagger that would work as a knock spell to any lock or magical stopper. He did so in a matter of momments. Unrealistic? Yes. Godmodding? For a powerful enough spellcaster, no.

I know of a character that was stated out and was being tested out against another in the clearing. The character was called a Godmodder because she utalized spring attack. More often then not, if someone does not like something that another character does they will classify it as god modding, this has already been said. I've seen godmodding before, it isn't fun, and if two fight each other it turns out to be children on a playground and quickly turns into a desire for asprin.

If someone is godmodding you need to take them aside and talk to them AFTER the fact. Try and work it out somehow. This thread seems like it is suposed to do this.

 

[Tharivious]

Thar/Drindin: The Magi already went over the use of the spell, lets just leave it alone and concentrate on the purpose of the thread

I could have sworn the purpose of this thread was discussion of what is and is not godmoding/powergaming/whatever vernacular you wish to use for it. If examples are brought up in the course of a thread that don't apply to the thread starter, those are still fair game for discussion.

First things first, where does it say that this is even close to D&D?

Wise words, and true. But by its definition, players are free to use stat-systems if they so choose. Discussion of said rules only applies when those players decree that they adhere vehemently to them, otherwise it's all theorhetical commenting on shaky guidelines. Still fair game for discussion when brought up in a given example, even if it only applies to that example.

As for things like Spring Attack or the like, I think a lot of it has to do with wording and perceptions. Depending on how an action is described, nearly anything can be twisted and distorted into a resemblance of godmoding. Unfortunate, but ultimately unavoidable due to various vocabulary or language barriers, combined with familiarity with systems used as reference points.

 

[Articifer Nathan]

Not to sound selfish or self centered, but the title of this thread is Judgement, as in what is to be done about Articifer_Nathan. I really only brought up the God modding part as an example of what is seen as wrong about the character. I'm not saying the discussion about God moding isn't one worth serious dicussion, actually it is something that needs the addressing it's being given here. but I digress, the topic is Articifer_Nathan, and whether he should stay or not, and if he stays, how to improve upon him.

 

[Silver_Shulad]

Exactly Judging you Nathan (character) and thats what some of us are doing. I guess we could say you use magic as a faceless bludgeon, there is nothing truely wrong with that, and yes I already said it is freeforum.

FreeForum, to me this is not a blanket in my mind to be used to cover all other ways of RP that is not D&D based, its just a forum or area where everyone can play freely the way they want. They are free to play that way, as are you to play your way, its just styles do not mesh with yours, but there is more that underlines your character. But that does not mean all characters will not accept you, as you can see from this thread some do, and don't care.

Its yer choice

Edit: Ouch,you want to know how to improve upon him, ill offer something when I have time.

To be continued...

 

[Orndene]

While I have not been on for some time I have seen nathan on here a lot. He has never seen like a god-moder to me, but i compare him with others who will take on all comers and not get a scratch. I have played with many charaters i stat up, D&D wise, and some I have actually played with on paper. If you can not be hit with a hit of an 24th level warlock you a most likely a god-moder. but thats is my two coppers.

 

[Tharivious]

If you can not be hit with a hit of an 24th level warlock you a most likely a god-moder.

Not everyone plays by the D&D rules though, so character level and the difference between a magical ray and an arrow are ultimately as ephemeral as they would be in-character, unless both parties have declared use of D&D rules. Likewise, with the warlock class not being part of the Core, not everyone is going to recognize every ability they possess and be able to react accordingly. Such a blanket statement doesn't really work well as a benchmark as you'd think when it comes to a freeform arena.

Anyhow.

but I digress, the topic is Articifer_Nathan, and whether he should stay or not, and if he stays, how to improve upon him.

There's never any reason to scrap a character that you've put so much time and effort into if you don't want to. No one should be attempting to tell you otherwise. Playing a character is your choice, and yours alone.

Improving him? I'd say to stay true to who he is first and foremost. Aside from the standard combat issues that come up (most of which are fully addressed on stickied threads) and letting others' stories work out in their own time (as mentioned above, I believe), most of the advice I can give has already been said.

Best advice with combat I can give, be more open-minded with people that get into conflicts with him and give more credit where other competitors are involved (note: this does not necessarily mean mysteriously reduce his power, but rather to reduce the omnipotence of that power - sudden changes in power level tend to be a bit awkward or hard to believe). Best advice with social interactions I can give without first-hand detail of how he's operating nowadays, be reserved with what he knows or is willing to reveal spontaneously, and fall into other players' scenarios as organically as possible. Both of these minimize the apparent power of the character, without drastically changing his nature.