D&D General Judgements Beyond the Rules

So it was pointed out to me that my game has a lot of Judgement in it. That is that me alone as the DM make offical "cosmic" judgements on player characters, completely beyond the rules. It was noted that this is a thing that makes my game unique, and unlike other games. Asking a couple other GMs and they have said they don't do it.

In general, this is a thing form Fantasy games. A lot of other games are more ground in hard reality with no cosmic judgements. It's also much more of a D&D thing, as cosmic judgement is wrapped in and around alignment.

So to give the example from the game, to show what I'm talking about:

So the players are all elves trying to save their small elven kingdom caught in the middle of a dwarf orc war. They have spent the last year or so gathering power, allies, and such. The last couple of sessions they have finally tracked down one of the ancient elven weapons they have been looking for: an elfblade sword. All the PCs are fighter types, so they all want it as it's a powerful weapon. Though they all well know the elven spirits prophecy: "Only a true elf with the desire to help elven kind may weld this blade".

So right off two players, Matt and Dan, know they can never weld the blade. They are both power gamers that care little for role play, and play their characters as themselves. Jen plays a shady elf who is very much out for herself. Zoe is the true role player that loves deep role playing as an elven heroine.

So as the "elven spirits" judge the four elves, that is me as the DM, only one elf is worthy to weld the blade.

Now it's not like the players did not know that this day was comming. They have known of the prophecy for nearly a year. They have had plenty of time and plenty of chances to role play both a true elf and have a desire to help elvenkind. The three of them choose not to.

So with the above there is not much of any gray area: three players are not trying. But that is not always the case. When the judgement is "only a wizard that loves magic can read from the Great Spellbook" a player might complain that "They cast spells in every combat, so they say they love magic!"

But there is nothing for the players to do, other then meet the requirements of the judgement. Or, that is, convince me as the DM that they meet the requirements. A huge component is role playing, and plenty of players choose now to do that. And after the role playing part, the next big thing is that judgement is that it's a block for the casual players. Even a simple one like "to pass the gate, you must give up an item of value to you". The casual player will never give up anything that they, as "they play their character as themselves", hold of value. You will never see such a player toss away something like their bag of holding....

So does anyone else use such Cosmic Judgements in their games?
 

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iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I don't really see much difference between this and any other prerequisite for, say, a magic item except that it's a lot less clear than "must be attuned by a wizard," for example. It's also not so dissimilar from just deciding that an NPC doesn't like the way the PCs is behaving and taking action accordingly.

In my games, I don't tend to create situations that require what you call "Cosmic Judgments," but the closest equivalent is how I handle Inspiration. If the player feels they adequately portrayed their personality trait, ideal, bond, or flaw, they may claim Inspiration. I will always assume they are making the claim in good faith, so they don't need to seek my approval. I don't really want to be sitting in judgment of this sort of thing.

Therefore, if I were to do something like you propose, I would try to make it very concrete so it's clear to everyone which hoop you have to jump to get the thing. It might be change your bond to "As a true elf, I will do all that I can to help my people" and then earn Inspiration on that bond every session for the next X sessions. Only then will the magic blade deem them worthy to be its wielder.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
So does anyone else use such Cosmic Judgements in their games?
Yes, though not exactly in this way.

I take very much to heart the idea that the PCs are like characters in a TV show, except I'm part of making it.

So I like to give every character an arc, not in the sense of setting a destination but of revealing hidden depths and unexpected forces. They have a "destiny," but that doesn't mean it is a fixed destination, as it were.

For example:
I have a Bard player, who loves cultural stuff and has a strong heroic streak. Give them a people who are suffering or controlled, and this player will yearn to set things right. Bard is a tiefling, because the player wanted to play one, thinking it sounded fun to be a child of two worlds like that, but both of his parents aee also tieflings. So I rolled with it: on his female ancestral line, his great-grandmother is a (now-former) succubus, but on his father's side...there is weirdness. His family tree doesn't branch. Only, and always, exactly ONE person has children, in each generation, going back over a thousand years, as far as they can tell. Someone, or something, is keeping that bloodline from spreading, but also ensuring it never dies out either. That's Weird. Further, an assassin-cult has started a civil war over whether he is their prophesied messiah-figure or a false prophet who will lead them astray, and now he has a reason to embrace and work with the ones who genuinely do believe he is their "Lord of the Ravens."

I try to nuture player choices like this. Give the things they find interesting weight and meaning. Present them with tough decisions and turn the fallout of those choices into yet more interesting events. It's been a blast and they have continuously both surprised and delighted me with their unexpected swerves and fidelity to the spirit of the characters.
 

aco175

Legend
I try to not 'punish' PCs for something I judge the players for. I have a player who is very smart and likes puzzles and riddles and such. If he plays a average fighter and solves everything, then fine. Same for my son who might play a genius mage, but does not know riddles or is able to logic them as well as the other player. Same might be the same for style of play. You have two fighter liking players who also power game. That should not matter if their PC cares enough about the elves to be worthy of using the sword. By making it clear that they are not worthy of getting the cool, shiny, powerful item you might be turning them away from the game. This may also be a reason they do not seem interested in the adventure since they cannot get the cool item. Maybe working with the players to come up with some story and how each may fit in the campaign will help. Maybe planting seeds of other cool items those other Pcs can get will help.

There is some other articles and videos about the types of players and how to game with them around. DMing for the quiet casual player or the loud theatre thespian is different and might be worth looking at.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
So does anyone else use such Cosmic Judgements in their games?
Literally all the time. It’s a basic part of being a referee. It’s not limited to fantasy games. Any RPG. No rule system has rules for everything. They can’t. It’s not possible. So the referee makes judgements and decisions and rulings, etc. Anything that’s home brew, that’s pure judgement. Anything that’s not straight out of a book, that’s pure judgement.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Literally all the time. It’s a basic part of being a referee. It’s not limited to fantasy games. Any RPG. No rule system has rules for everything. They can’t. It’s not possible. So the referee makes judgements and decisions and rulings, etc. Anything that’s home brew, that’s pure judgement. Anything that’s not straight out of a book, that’s pure judgement.
No rule system can have discrete rules for everything.

An extensible framework rule, however, can be applied in diverse contexts. Fate's aspects are probably the most extreme form of this, but other examples also exist (skill challenges and Page 42, for example.)

If we break free of the tyranny of needing EVERY rule to be a discrete rule, and instead allow for some rules that cover open-ended sets of things, we can have our cake and eat it too. That doesn't mean adjudication will become irrelevant (it won't, it can't, you need active intelligence to effectively use extensible framework rules), but it does mean that we can avoid having to go into the Absolutely No Guidance Just Completely Invent Whatever zone every other minute.
 

Literally all the time. It’s a basic part of being a referee. It’s not limited to fantasy games. Any RPG. No rule system has rules for everything. They can’t. It’s not possible. So the referee makes judgements and decisions and rulings, etc. Anything that’s home brew, that’s pure judgement. Anything that’s not straight out of a book, that’s pure judgement.
I think you are missing the point. The OP is specifically about what they call “cosmic judgements,” not everyday game referee judgements
 




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