Jumping Chaaaaaarge!

[Marimmar]

Hi!

I was thinking of something new to try with my characters and thought about making a Jumping Charge. Charging this way would allow a character to simply jump over the frontline heavies and attack the weak wizards behind their backs. I know that charging is not possible when someone is standing in the way, but won't a sufficiently high Jump check allow for a charge attack anyway? And would you gain the +1 bonus for attacking from a higher position?

If it was possible to pull this off I guess you would still get AoO as you jump past the opposition, so an additional Tumble check would be called for unless you could jump over 5' above the enemy's heads.

Opinions?

~Marimmar

 

[Li Shenron]

Hi!

I was thinking of something new to try with my characters and thought about making a Jumping Charge. Charging this way would allow a character to simply jump over the frontline heavies and attack the weak wizards behind their backs. I know that charging is not possible when someone is standing in the way, but won't a sufficiently high Jump check allow for a charge attack anyway? And would you gain the +1 bonus for attacking from a higher position?

If it was possible to pull this off I guess you would still get AoO as you jump past the opposition, so an additional Tumble check would be called for unless you could jump over 5' above the enemy's heads.

Opinions?

~Marimmar

I had once a similar problem, to a lesser extent: an enemy behind some barrels was shooting crossbow bolts and a character wanted to charge and jump over the barrels.

With the 3.5 Jump you would need something more than 5ft to jump over the frontliners' heads, which means that by the rules you need to jump a long distance of at least 20ft, and the highest point is midjump so the Wiz must be about 10ft more away.

Anyway, beside the fact that it is very difficult (I think it provokes AoO for moving) and probably requires some house rules for non-standard jumps, I also doubt that it would make sense to get the charge bonus by moving in this way, which also is not in a very straight line after all.

Perhaps with a special Feat to be taken by the character, you can allow to jump (and maybe do other things) as part of a charge, but by the rules alone I doubt that it works. I think that everything that hinders your movement for the charge makes you lose the momentum.

 

[Darklone]

I agree with Li. No problem with jumping over some opponents (Ring of Jumping 3E rocked), but with a charge... that's difficult and the wizard would have to be far behind his buddies.

SRD:
Long Jump: A long jump is a horizontal jump, made across a gap like a chasm or stream. At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance. The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet).

Me as a DM would require you to make a Long Jump to charge. The achieved vertical height to avoid AoOs would have to be enemy size +5ft, so against humans you'd need approximately 15ft, e.g. the jump would have to be 60ft long with 20 ft running start. Sooo... a barbarian with movement 40ft per round might make it and might hit the opponent wizard 30ft behind his buddies with it.

Note that the DC would be 60. DC 120 without the 20ft running start.

If your DM would use the vertical reach listen in Jump as a guideline, he would argue to let you clear 8ft +5ft... so 13ft instead of 15ft, yields a DC 52.

 

[Marimmar]

*grins*

Nothing beats a flying Barbarian.

1/2 Orc Barbarian 8
Str: 20 /w Rage 24 (+7)
Feat: Run +4
Fast Movement +4
Tumble 5 Ranks
Jump 11 Ranks +2 Synergy +4 Fast Movement +4 Run +7 Rage = +28

This would regularly allow for jumps with a minimum range of 30' (assuming that a nat. 1 is a fumble in many campaigns) and passes over a height of 7.5' minimum and this is without items at all.

According to the SRD: [... I]f any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.

This would make a jumping charge impossible. OTOH noone would deny a flying creature to make a charge just because 20' underneath it is another creature, so one might argue that the charge rules as found in the SRD only apply to ground based charges, not aerial death from above attacks.

~Marimmar

 

[Li Shenron]

According to the SRD: [... I]f any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.

This would make a jumping charge impossible. OTOH noone would deny a flying creature to make a charge just because 20' underneath it is another creature, so one might argue that the charge rules as found in the SRD only apply to ground based charges, not aerial death from above attacks.

But the creature can fly in a straight path and charge as long as no "cubes" along the path contains something that slows or hampers movement. I think the point with jumping is that you are not really moving in a "straight line" to gain momentum.

However, I think there is a feat in Sword & Fist called Mantis Leap, I don't remember if it exactly grants you this ability or maybe it's something else, you can check that but I think it is restricted to Monks (or requires something like 4 Monks levels).

 

[Marimmar]

Well, a typical human is only 6' tall, so anything above that would suffice to fly straight through some AoOs IMC (DC 25+). There's another point that's up for discussion, if for example the wizard was closer than the range I rolled for my jump check I could shurely (according to the rules) end my movement in the air in front of him attack him and continue my jump the next round.

~Marimmar

Me as a DM would require you to make a Long Jump to charge. The achieved vertical height to avoid AoOs would have to be enemy size +5ft, so against humans you'd need approximately 15ft, e.g. the jump would have to be 60ft long with 20 ft running start. Sooo... a barbarian with movement 40ft per round might make it and might hit the opponent wizard 30ft behind his buddies with it.
Note that the DC would be 60. DC 120 without the 20ft running start.
If your DM would use the vertical reach listen in Jump as a guideline, he would argue to let you clear 8ft +5ft... so 13ft instead of 15ft, yields a DC 52.

 

[Darklone]

Well, a typical human is only 6' tall, so anything above that would suffice to fly straight through some AoOs IMC (DC 25+). There's another point that's up for discussion, if for example the wizard was closer than the range I rolled for my jump check I could shurely (according to the rules) end my movement in the air in front of him attack him and continue my jump the next round.

~Marimmar

Well, ok, but I would at least apply the 8ft vertical reach for medium sized creatures given in that table (lifting weapons).

That's a DC 32 then (with 20ft running start), not such a big problem for a good barbarian or monk with a nice item or the spell, perhaps even some other speed enhancing feats.

 

[RigaMortus]

I have a question... When you charge someone, don't you have to stop in the first threatening square? So if you tried to Jump over someone (in a charge) and you couldn't clear more than 5' above their head, they'd not only get an AoO on you, but you'd have to stop in that square (the one above their head) as it is the first threatening square.

 

[Storminator]

I would allow it, because it's cool.

If your jump isn't high enough, you get AoOed from the front line guys (if they have Hold the Line they bat you out of the air...). If you don't clear the front line, they get AoO and you stop in front of them, and you don't get the charge attack on them.

If you jump too far, you attack the wizard on your way by, and he gets an AoO on you as you pass thru his threatened areas.

PS

 

[CRGreathouse]

I'm with Storminator. It's cool, and you'd certainly have momentum from the jump itself. You'd provoke a boatload of AoO, though.