Jumping over Opponents

[CapnZapp]

Something simpler is to use the monster's Ref defense. This works out to DC 12 + the monster's level, more or less.

Thank you for your suggestion.

Yes, it's even simpler - I like that!

Only issue is that it creates something of a special case. If you use "DC 10/15/20 + half level of whatever" that's standard for a lot of checks.

 

[Bayuer]

@CapnZapp I didn't see that the somersoult is in Acrobatic description. That changes everything. So to jump over monster you need to make an Acrobatic check. DCs then should be taken form table in DMG with DCs. In Acrobatic description it's said that DM may change DCs and even use hard DC. This 15 Base is just a mistake, simplifiaction for lasy DM or just they didn't remove it when the game evolved. Anyway, when they changed those DCs on p.42 they are just to easy so use what Mearls says about skill checks he use: 15+1/2 level of PC. For hard use 20+1/2 level or just add +5 to all DCs in the table. I will use it that way.

I'm playing from the birth of 4E and now learned such a great use of skill. OMG;p I will read books again I think

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

My apologies for rambling here...

@Primitive Screwhead: I could be wrong, but perhaps you're saying the DM should use the "Actions the Rules Don't Cover" guidelines (DMG p42)?

Yes, thats exactly what I am saying. Page 178 of the PHB talks about DCs and specifies that the "...DM sets the DCs for specific situations based on level, conditions, and circumstances, as detailed in the Dungeon Masters Guide."

On page 180 under Acrobatic Stunts, it calls out a 'Base DC' of 15, which probably should have been written as the DC under the First Aid use of Heal (pg 185 ), which states "DC: Varies depending on the task you're attempting"

The only reason I can think they used "Base DC" here is that they were trying to address a wide range of stunt manuevers while still giving the player an idea of the intended difficulty range. It would be hard to put in a table, like they did with other skills, the individual types of stunts. Leaving it open to players leads to more imaginative use of the skill... {theoretically, still trying to get my group into using skill stunts...}


I find that the DMG DC table gets alot of milage. Before each session I write down on a note-pad the medium DC and normal damage expressions for the level of the PCs... and tend to use those numbers a fair amount in the game instead of having to stop and calculate DCs. Just toss a DM friend here and there and call it a day.
Best page of rules I have ever seen for gaming!

 

[CapnZapp]

This 15 Base is just a mistake, simplifiaction for lasy DM or just they didn't remove it when the game evolved.

it calls out a 'Base DC' of 15, which probably should have been written [differently]

Oh I agree with both of you

 

[Bayuer]

Another thing. I will rule it will still provoke opportunity attack. Whats your ruling CapnZapp?

 

[TheGogmagog]

I agree that the half oppoenent's level and size modifiers work out nicely. But to be pedantic the DMG p42 rule suggests half the character's level, so jumping over that level 1 minion will get harder as you go up in level (well basically your own half level is added to the DC 15).

 

[eudemonist]

We've house-ruled jumping to be covered by both Athletics and Acrobatics. The DCs aren't that hard, because monsters stopping a PC shouldn't really be possible, under the movement rules. As long as the PC jumps high and far enough to clear the squares (more like cubes, actually), all the monsters can do is take an OA, just like with normal movement.

 

[James McMurray]

Another thing. I will rule it will still provoke opportunity attack. Whats your ruling CapnZapp?

I'm not CapnZapp, but I agree with you. The skill doesn't say that it avoids OAs, and allowing it to do so devalues the few powers that allow you to do things like that (such as Tumble). I'd probably allow a higher DC (say +5 or +10) if the player wanted to also avoid OAs. Failure might also cause them to fall prone instead of bouncing over.

 

[Bayuer]

James McMurray when you use Stunt and you fail you will end prone anyway. Yeah. Jumping is ok, but OA are still there.

TheGogmagog well maybe thats true but that is to realistic point of view. When you gain a levels you fights are harder so the DCs are higher. Using the p.42 tables is also a simplification.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Fluff text for a Skill really matters very little. You are physically making a jump and it would therefore follow all of the rules for Jumping. So the whole divide by 10 (or 5 with running start) and vertical distance cleared would be based off of your Athletics skill not Acrobatics.

Go ahead and post it to the Ask Wizards see what they say