cignus_pfaccari
First Post
Joshua Dyal said:
I think "big heaping shovels full of hyperbole" is more accurate.
Brad
Just discovered Dark Sun -- have questions!
- Thread starter Desdichado
- Start date
I think "big heaping shovels full of hyperbole" is more accurate.
Brad
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Crothian said:
I think it's perhaps a little close-minded to decide that every single character in the fiction can never be better represented by a class that exists now, which didn't exist then, to the point that you pan an entire interpretation of a setting simply because it DOES make use of new, better fitting classes.
Crothian
First Post
Saeviomagy said:
The setting was desinged for second edition and the second edition rules set. If a character might be better represented by a new class is immaterial. Just like designing house rules that would better fit the setting is not important.
The novels were set to represent the setting at the time and should have also represented the rules base at the time. There were forgotten realm books that always did not have wizards behave as wizards in the game do. It was authers being lazy or taking artistic liscense and doing things the game rules do not represent.
Now, I could care less if Socerers should or should not be in the game. That's why each groups plays there own game and makes their own choices. But suggesting that the books support this is at best a lucky coincidence for the writers.
cignus_pfaccari said:
I disagree. They're entirely against the flavour of the setting. Entirely.
It's like playing a game of Star Wars, and having one of the players insist on running around in an antique suit of plate armor, riding a horse.
Dark Sun includes neither paladins, normal clerics, or spellcasting bards.
I despise the drive to make everything in D&D 3E vanilla..
Banshee
qstor said:I'm thinking of picking up one of the boxed sets on Ebay. I never got into DS before but reading over the Dragon and Dungeon articles left me wanting for more information. Plus, I never felt IMC in the Realms and Greyhawk that psionics was good, but Dark Sun seems to work right with psionics with the slight sci-fi feel to the campaign setting rather that pure heroic fantasy like the LotR. Just my two cents..
Plus the elves and halfings are really different it seems. Some of the 2e supplements and modules are cheap on Ebay. I like in print products better than .pdfs
The idea of halfing cannibal raiders with bone weapons sounds cool
Mike
If you're open for something "new", Dark Sun is quite good...I ran games in that setting for a few years, and it was awesome. Enough familiar elements like elves, dwarves, halflings etc....but very twisted at the same time.
The survival aspect to it was very cool.
And I very much recommend checking out the 3E conversion docs at www.athas.org. They did a really good job....I wish the magic had been done differently, but that's just me.
Banshee
Joshua Dyal said:
I think the main problem with sorcerers in Dark Sun is that if they're there, it completely removes from the entire defiling vs. perserving battle. Sorcerers are internally fueled, so-to-speak. Wizards have to draw power from the world around them....that in itself was a major plot element in the campaign, and set up why the world was the way it was.
If there were sorcerers running around, it leads to the question....where does their power come from? There are no "dragon-bloods". There are not that many outsiders. There are no fey at all.
Plus, it really ignores some really great gameplay/roleplay issues........your characters have their backs against the wall and are about to be captured or killed by a Templar-led patrol. Does the preserver, almost out of magic, draw a bit more, and cross the line to defiling, in order to save the party....but further damaging the world he's living in? Or does he stick to his principles, and let someone die? Hard choice. There could be justifications for either side of the argument.
Once you throw sorcerers into the mix, it makes you have to look at a whole bunch of other things though.
I will say that sorcerers are probably the new class that I object to the least in Dark Sun. Or rather, they'd be tied with monks. Neither spellcasting bards or paladins belong in the setting though.
Banshee
Personally I liked the revised box. The art wasn't as good, but I liked the new races, as well as new elements that it introduced, like the Kreen Empire, the Last Sea, the avangion Oronis, etc. A lot of the new areas were actually pretty cool IMO.Dragonblade said:I think that Simon Hawke's Tribe of One series was the best. True it broke the "rules" of the setting, but I feel it captured the savage Conan-esque feel of the setting better than Prism Pentad. And considering that Troy Denning's Prism Pentad series pretty much destroyed the entire setting itself, I'm willing to overlook that fact.
In fact, the whole setting post Prism Pentad kinda sucks in my not so humble opinion.
The whole revised box set sucks too. In fact, I was so disgusted with TSR's nerfing of my favorite setting that I pretty much stopped buying their products altogether. I didn't really buy new D&D books until WotC bought them out.
I'd love for WotC to produce a Dark Sun 3.5 setting book. Just one book...
Banshee
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
About sorcerers in Dark Sun. The case that is usually made that sorcerers in Dark Sun are not appropriate is not really that they "just weren't mentioned before", or "2e didn't have something like this before".
One primary disagreement some have with including sorcerers is with the stated position each spellcaster type has in the setting. Psionics were deliberately designed to be the consequence-free spellcaster, plus, psionic potential was the type that could be everpresent in living things. People could just have the ability naturally.
Divine magic requires a dedication to a greater entity (druids:spirits of the land, templars: Sorcerer Kings) or extra-planar energy (clerics) to get the power. Arcane spellcasting was situated in the status of a learned talent. It wasn't something innate. Indeed, in Dark Sun arcane spellcasting was discovered/invented and is passed on to others by teaching. Neither arcane or divine were to be innate abilties. Psionics was to have that status in the setting, not to just "be more prevalent" than magic.
Don't forget, that Athasian bards were stripped of their spellcasting abilities and rangers were switched to learning clerical spells, not because the designers thought it was neat. But another issue that was built into the drawbacks of each supernatural energy type, arcane casters were given the challenge of having to hide their nature from the rest of the world.
The functions of the sorcerer class turned this integral background flavor on its head. A psionicist and a 3e sorcerer that practices preserving are no different, while the 3e wizard must still be worried about his spellbook being discovered, or being discovered studying over his tomes, or being discovered doing spell research. The only area both wizard and sorcerer would be hindered is worrying about hiding spell components. The worry of having to hide one's arcane talents is massively weighted against the wizard giving the sorcerer class an huge undue edge in Dark Sun. This reason to hide is part of the reason for the Veiled Alliance's existence. Some fans of Dark Sun don't want that aspect altered. To them, its not just the general power level or typical functions of the different "spellcasting" spells/powers that is the more important, but rather what is required of the classes to gain the spells/powers to begin with.
Regards,
Eric Anondson
One primary disagreement some have with including sorcerers is with the stated position each spellcaster type has in the setting. Psionics were deliberately designed to be the consequence-free spellcaster, plus, psionic potential was the type that could be everpresent in living things. People could just have the ability naturally.
Divine magic requires a dedication to a greater entity (druids:spirits of the land, templars: Sorcerer Kings) or extra-planar energy (clerics) to get the power. Arcane spellcasting was situated in the status of a learned talent. It wasn't something innate. Indeed, in Dark Sun arcane spellcasting was discovered/invented and is passed on to others by teaching. Neither arcane or divine were to be innate abilties. Psionics was to have that status in the setting, not to just "be more prevalent" than magic.
Don't forget, that Athasian bards were stripped of their spellcasting abilities and rangers were switched to learning clerical spells, not because the designers thought it was neat. But another issue that was built into the drawbacks of each supernatural energy type, arcane casters were given the challenge of having to hide their nature from the rest of the world.
The functions of the sorcerer class turned this integral background flavor on its head. A psionicist and a 3e sorcerer that practices preserving are no different, while the 3e wizard must still be worried about his spellbook being discovered, or being discovered studying over his tomes, or being discovered doing spell research. The only area both wizard and sorcerer would be hindered is worrying about hiding spell components. The worry of having to hide one's arcane talents is massively weighted against the wizard giving the sorcerer class an huge undue edge in Dark Sun. This reason to hide is part of the reason for the Veiled Alliance's existence. Some fans of Dark Sun don't want that aspect altered. To them, its not just the general power level or typical functions of the different "spellcasting" spells/powers that is the more important, but rather what is required of the classes to gain the spells/powers to begin with.
Regards,
Eric Anondson
Last edited:
Jürgen Hubert
First Post
Henry said:
Technically, an "Antropophage" is someone who eats humans...
Last edited:
Similar Threads
