Just got Races of Stone

[I'm A Banana]

It looks at first grok like the substitution levels are more powerful than the standard class levels.

Why shouldn't every single Dwarven Sorcerer in existence take these levels? Or the dwarven fighter level that gives you six (!) free weapon focuses? Why bother being straight fighter or straight sorcerer with these options?

Of course, that's just first grok, and I haven't seen the book yet, but that could be a cause for the resistence to them. Or I could be waaaaay off. At either end, I'm pickin' this thing up.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I would hazard the guess that any fighter who wants to focus in a single weapon will not give a damn about getting Weapon Focus in six different weapons, when she could have taken a feat from a chain she wishes to pursue instead.

However, does sound like a fun feat for a two-weapon fighter who wants to use mismatched weapons - like battleaxe and handaxe, or dwarven waraxe and handaxe.

As for the sorcerer - you're giving up one of your very limited spells known. Some people might not consider that a good deal.

 

[Tzarevitch]

It looks at first grok like the substitution levels are more powerful than the standard class levels.

Why shouldn't every single Dwarven Sorcerer in existence take these levels? Or the dwarven fighter level that gives you six (!) free weapon focuses? Why bother being straight fighter or straight sorcerer with these options?

Of course, that's just first grok, and I haven't seen the book yet, but that could be a cause for the resistence to them. Or I could be waaaaay off. At either end, I'm pickin' this thing up.

They tend to be slightly either more powerful or more versatile than the ability that they replace in my opinion but I suspect they are intended to be. They are intended to make the particular race more powerful in an area that they traditionally supposed to be more powerful. If you are not playing a character who follows that race's standard tradition you stick with the normal stuff because the substitution tends to make your character worse than normal because you are giving up a valuable ability for something that is not helpful.

For example if you are playing an atypical dwarf fighter: a swashbuckling, high dex dwarf who fights in light armor and uses a rapier than the dwarven fighter substitution levels set you back. There is no reason to take them because they are intended to represent the dwarven fighter tradition of the axe-wielding, giant-slaying main battle tank. In fact, taking them makes you much worse than normal because you have lost 3 feats in the process.

If you are playing a dwarf cleric in say the Ghostwalk setting or in Ravenloft, you probably won't be taking the substitution levels because you need that turn undead ability and will probably never see a giant (the dwarven cleric trades Turn Undead for Smite Giant). Also, if you ever want to take a Divine Feat you can't afford to swap out Turn Undead. If you don't wield a Warhammer then the Warhammer specialist stuff is utterly useless.

For the dwarven sorcerer, the abilities are powerful but you are swapping out the ability to take a familiar (a mobile pair of eyes and hands that grants Alertness) for the ability to channel the power of the earth (and still gain Alertness but with a DR 1/adamantine or something). The rest of the sorcerer swaps require you to trade off precious spells known for nice abilities, but these abilities commit you to fighting on the ground against foes on the ground. Say goodbye to any improved mobility in combat using the Fly spell or any of its derivitives and several abilities don't work if your opponent is airborne either. The abilities are great for dwarven sorcerers fighting in the underdark, but mized blessing when adventuring on the surface.

Honestly I love the substitution concept because it allows player customization without the straitjacket of PrCs. It also allows some customization at low levels which PrCs can't do. Honestly I like the substitution concept much more than I like the racial paragon approach to customization that Unearthed Arcana uses.

Tzarevitch

 

[Hoog]

Could you tell me more about the Battlesmith as this is the type of character that I hae jsut started playing in a campaign and cannot pick up a book until next monday at the earliest.

 

[NilesB]

Re: substitution levels

Total agreement. What I have heard so far could have been done just by simply swapping a class feature with something equivalent.

Thats exactly what this is.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I hadn't been excited about Races of Stone, but now it sounds like one of the best WotC products in a while. I almost always play dwarves of one sort or another, so it looks like I'll have to pick it up.

One question for those who have the book: have you noticed the same kind of editing problems that plagued Complete Divine?

 

[qstor]

Is this worth buying? I don't have Races of Destiny or Stone?

Mike