Just *how* big is that gold piece again?

[Orius]

I use the standard D&D coinage in my games, simply because it simplifies things. Players aren't going to be thrilled with complictated monetary systems, especially ones that resemble old English currency.

The only change I make to the system is that I throw out platinum pieces. Equipment lists do not list prices in platinum, so they're redundant IMO. I just convert to gold pieces. For the same reasons I disregarded electrum pieces in previous editions of the game, and converted them to silver.

Besides platinum wasn't discovered in the real world until like the 19th century. So I find the use of platinum in D&D settings to be sort of anachronistic.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Like so much in D&D, there has to be a suspension of disbelief, hence a FANTASY world, not an historical mediaeval setting.

In our game we have used a silver standard, rather than gold, as I believe someone else suggested (make gp into sp, sp to cp, cp to 10 for 1cp). Flash gold in our campaigns and you'll see every merchant within sight perking up, along with the cutpurses...

 

[der_kluge]

Here's one of the opening paragraphs in the Artificer's Handbook:
_________

Fifty gold coins weigh one pound. For discussion purposes, assume that a gold coin is the size of a U.S nickel (¾ in. diameter). A stack of fifty nickels is 3-¾ in. tall. 8 stacks deep by 8 stacks long, and 50 nickels high is 3,200 nickels and weighs 64 pounds (using our 50 coins=1 pound basis). These coins consume a space 7-in. x 7-in. x 3-¾ in. (183.75 cubic inches). A Staff of Power has a market price of 200,000 gold coins. This many coins consumes just over 11,484 cubic inches (957 cubic feet) which is a pile of coins 9.8-ft. x 9.8-ft. x 9.8-ft., and would weigh 2 tons (4,000 pounds).
It’s conceivable that only in a dragon’s horde would one find this many coins. Not only would it consume the size of a decent bank vault, a medium-sized creature would need a strength score of 37 to even lift this load. Even if platinum coins were used, 40,000 would be required at a weight of 800 pounds. Certainly, one could argue that if a transaction ever did occur in which a Staff of Power (or similarly expensive item) was purchased, it was done so in exchange for property, titles, or land of appropriate value. But what about creating expensive items?

__________

I had fun writing that bit. Pretty absurd when you think about it.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP
I'm a bit bothered about the size of the "standard" coinage for D&D, especially at the 50 coins = 1 pound exchange. I'm thinking of using a 500 coins = 1 pound exchange as a possibility (BTW, what would the coin dimensions be for that?).

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Well if at 50 coins a pound, the coin in question would have to have a volume of 0.47 cubic centimeters (~0.03 cubic inches), then at 500 coins a pound, the coin would have to have a volume of 0.047 cubic centimeters, and thus, if it has a diameter of 1 cm (which is a little smaller than a dime), it would have to have a thickness of about half a millimeter, which is not much. The coins would get destroyed immediately.

AR

Great googlely mooglely! Never mind that idea, then... That's for coins of relatively pure metal, right? Still, scratch that idea, then.

Besides platinum wasn't discovered in the real world until like the 19th century. So I find the use of platinum in D&D settings to be sort of anachronistic.

Actually, platinum was known to the world in relatively medieval times--it just happened that it wasn't mined in Europe. In the Americas, however, it was found and used.

From Wikipedia:

History
Platinum derives from the Spanish platina meaning "little silver".
Naturally occurring platinum and platinum-rich alloys have been known for a long time. Though the metal was used by pre-Columbian Indians, the first European reference to Platinum appears in 1557 in the writings of the Italian humanist Julius Caesar Scaliger (1484-1558) as a description of a mysterious metal found in Central American mines between Darién (Panama) and Mexico ("up until now impossible to melt by any of the Spanish arts").

The Spaniards named the metal "platina," or little silver, when they first encountered it in Colombia. They regarded platinum as an unwanted impurity in the silver they were mining, and often discarded it.

Platinum was discovered by astronomer Antonio de Ulloa and don Jorge Juan y Santacilia (1713-1773), both appointed by King Philip V to join a geographical expedition in Peru that lasted from 1735 to 1745. Among other things, he observed the platina del pinto, the unworkable metal found with gold in New Granada (Colombia). British privateers intercepted Ulloa's ship on the return voyage. Though he was well treated in England, and made a member of the Royal Society he was prevented from publishing a reference to the unknown metal until 1748. Before that could happen Charles Wood independently isolated the element in 1741.

Platinum is now considered more precious than gold, so that a platinum award is better than a golden one.

 

[Altalazar]

And there's been some criticism of Quicksilver about how draggy it gets with such stuff.

There's a reason we don't have stuff like this in D&D. It is boring. A glance into the complexities of ancient times may be academically interesting once. However, how would you like to do it every time the character buys something? Want a new dagger? Crap, it'll take 15 minutes of haggling over the blasted coinage!

There is no action, no drama, no character development in dealing with details like that. Just buy the bloody thing, check off the value, and get on with somehting that makes the story interesting

Have you read Quicksilver? I am only about 100 pages in - I like it thus far. He really doesn't drag with it - he did it just enough, in that one exchange, to give you the flavor of how that sort of thing really worked - such that later, when the note was used to get a pound, he didn't need to repeat it for that earlier episode to resonate and give it significance. Given that in Cryptonomicon he spent a great deal of time describing the perfect way to eat Captain Crunch cereal, one just has to accept such details as part of his style (and he does them so well!)

As to the game, I'm not suggesting players spend half an hour of game time haggling over which coins to use - you could incorporate it into the system more as a knowledge issue - the player has some coins that he knows are worth more than others, due to origin, and maybe he'll get a bonus or penalty to that opposed bargaining check based on that.

 

[Umbran]

Have you read Quicksilver? I am only about 100 pages in - I like it thus far.

Not yet. I loved Cryptonomicon, but the reviews I've seen of Quicksilver have had me put the new book somewhat lower on my list of things to read. I'll note that 100 pages is not all that far into a 900+ page book.

As to the game, I'm not suggesting players spend half an hour of game time haggling over which coins to use - you could incorporate it into the system more as a knowledge issue - the player has some coins that he knows are worth more than others, due to origin, and maybe he'll get a bonus or penalty to that opposed bargaining check based on that.

Okay, so you're adding paperwork and skill checks, but you're not going to actually go through the description, rendering the thing a purely mechanical matter? I'm not sure I see how that makes things more interesting for anyone.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Well if at 50 coins a pound, the coin in question would have to have a volume of 0.47 cubic centimeters (~0.03 cubic inches)

Based on pure 24k gold maybe. Truth is, coinage will be closer to 10k gold. Large american coins (silver/gold dollar) are 2.3cc, weigh ~25g (~ 19 to the pound) and have only half the density of gold. Assuming this is normal, gold coins are between quarter and half-dollar sized.

It can be even bigger if you use cheaper, less dense metals.

 

[Numion]

If you realy want to blow peoples minds .... use the old english monitary system.

Pre-decimalisation, the Pound was divided into 240 pennies rather than 100, though it was rarely expressed in this way. Rather it was expressed in terms of Pounds, Shillings and Pence, where:

£1 = 20 shillings.

1 shilling = 12 pence.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay used that syste. It was renamed though =

1 Gold Crown = 20 Silver Shillings = 12 Copper Pfennig

 

[jasper]

One protection against shaving was a ridged edge - like we have on some of our coins now - if you shaved it, the ridges would be shaved off..
Um only near good queen Elizabeth number one. Most medieval coins in England had either dots around the edges which were the fore runner of the edges. Or the long cross on the back. If some many of the dots or so much of bars on the long cross were missing it was a short weight coin.
Look at Coin craft’s English and UK coins 1066 to Date and America’s Money America’s story by Richard Doty. For more information.

I tip my hat to rest of you who have done some great answers.

Of medieval coins do not stack as well due being hand stamped and uneven wear. how ever i do allow for stacking coin just to save time.
Also makes for a great trap when the dragon has stacked all in pile 10 coins wide, 10 coins deep and oh my god greedy greedy gumdrops high. The characters ran when I told them the dragon started to push his stack over on them.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I just hate how gold coins are cheapened in the game. They should be something so rare that no one who isn't rich should ever even have seen one. Instead, they are passed around like popcorn by peasants shopping at the market.

That's a slacking GM. A non-skilled urban laborer earns 1sp/day (see the rules on the skill profession) Assuming 6-day work week, he earns 25 sp/month, ~30gp/year and probably is fed and housed as part of the job. Skilled artisans make more, on the order of 250gp/year.

Looking at the items commoners will purchase, they should do 99% of their buying with copper.

It breaks down at the higher levels, but at low levels
1cp = $1. 1sp = $10 1gp=$100 1pp = $1,000

Mug of ale 4 cp ($4)
Bread, per loaf 2 cp ($2)
Common Inn 5 sp/night ($50)
Poor Inn 2 sp/night ($20)
Common Meals 3 sp ($30) (at an inn)
Poor Meal 1 sp ($10) (at an inn)
longsword 15 gp ($1,500)
riding Horse+gear 110 gp ($11,000)
War horse+gear 426gp ($42,600)

All in all, most commoners should treat gold coins like you would $100 bills while platinum are $1000 bills. Pocket full of silver means you're quite well off. Pocket full of gold? Wealthy. Pocket full of platinum? "Hello Mr. Gates, Mr. Trump is waiting on you."

And in my games large transactions are handled by letters of credit guaranteed by merchant houses, nobles, guilds, or temples. They are not universally accepted which is why gems still have usage, despite their low resale value, as lightweight means of transporting wealth.

Of course I also charge moneychanging fees when they convert bulk coinage, like the huge quantity of copper they acquired from a giant's horde. 800lb of copper == 400gp -40gp moneychanger's fee ==360gp).