Just how intelligent are unintelligent undead?

[Belbarrus]

Just how 'intelligent' are animated skeletons? According to the MM, skeletons have an intelligence of "--", cannot draw conclusions on their own take no initiative. They have to be given simple commands like, "Kill anyone that enters this chamber."

So, what *can* they conclude?

A player in our group is playing an Evil cleric and has animated 6 skeletons (and plans to get more). Here are some examples of how I limited the skeletons actions:

-He told a skeleton to attack any enemy that comes through the door. I said that the skeleton cannot determine who is a friend or enemy and will attack anything.
-I told him that when ordered to attack, the skeletons will take the most direct route to the target, even walking through threat areas. They will not move into postion on purpose that lets them flank.
-The skeletons have no profession, can have no feats and are therefore not proficient in using weapons and armor (i.e. they will attack at -4 with any weapon and suffer non-proficent

penalties using armor).
-Skeletons cannot be 'taught' anything. You cannot train a skeleton to use a skill, weapon or to wear armor.

Here are some other situations:
-The Cleric ordered the skeletons to attack the 'white skinned' people (Wights). Can the skeletons determine what this means? Do skeletons have the intelligence to determine who the 'white skinned' ones are, as opposed to just attacking anyone? If the cleric pointed to a specific target and said "attack that one." there would be no problem.
-Can a skeleton Climb, Jump or Swim or use any other skill that can be used untrained? Is a skeleton intelligent enough to climb a rope or jump over a 3 foot wide pit? Even if the owner

commands them, "Climb that rope." does the skeleton even know what that means?
-Can a skeleton use a command activated item?
-Can a skeleton hide or move silently? Do they know what to do if their owner orders them to hide?

-Is it safe to assume that skeletons know nothing other than moving and fighting?


Feedback would really help determine how I should be handling the Players undead minions.

Thanks,


Belbarrus

 

[melkoriii]

Just how 'intelligent' are animated skeletons? According to the MM, skeletons have an intelligence of "--", cannot draw conclusions on their own take no initiative. They have to be given simple commands like, "Kill anyone that enters this chamber."

So, what *can* they conclude?

A player in our group is playing an Evil cleric and has animated 6 skeletons (and plans to get more). Here are some examples of how I limited the skeletons actions:

-He told a skeleton to attack any enemy that comes through the door. I said that the skeleton cannot determine who is a friend or enemy and will attack anything.
-I told him that when ordered to attack, the skeletons will take the most direct route to the target, even walking through threat areas. They will not move into postion on purpose that lets them flank.
-The skeletons have no profession, can have no feats and are therefore not proficient in using weapons and armor (i.e. they will attack at -4 with any weapon and suffer non-proficent

penalties using armor).
-Skeletons cannot be 'taught' anything. You cannot train a skeleton to use a skill, weapon or to wear armor.

Here are some other situations:
-The Cleric ordered the skeletons to attack the 'white skinned' people (Wights). Can the skeletons determine what this means? Do skeletons have the intelligence to determine who the 'white skinned' ones are, as opposed to just attacking anyone? If the cleric pointed to a specific target and said "attack that one." there would be no problem.
-Can a skeleton Climb, Jump or Swim or use any other skill that can be used untrained? Is a skeleton intelligent enough to climb a rope or jump over a 3 foot wide pit? Even if the owner

commands them, "Climb that rope." does the skeleton even know what that means?
-Can a skeleton use a command activated item?
-Can a skeleton hide or move silently? Do they know what to do if their owner orders them to hide?

-Is it safe to assume that skeletons know nothing other than moving and fighting?


Feedback would really help determine how I should be handling the Players undead minions.

Thanks,


Belbarrus

Basicly treat a mindless creator as having a know how of a living creater of its type (Human skelletons haveing the know how of a Human) but they must be told what to do.

Attack the white skined foe's would have then attack anyone that was white (undead or not).

Attack any enemies that enter:
they would attack anyone who enters that they have not been told not to attack.

They can Climb and jump and swim and will do so if it is the quickes way to acheave the task given.

They take things lteraly and will do exactly what you say.

The "Master" of them is always not counted as a enemy unless spacificly stated.


As a Cleric that creates Undead, always state who is a friend after you create the undead. Then they will never attack them unless spacificly stated to do so.

 

[AuraSeer]

-He told a skeleton to attack any enemy that comes through the door. I said that the skeleton cannot determine who is a friend or enemy and will attack anything.

That sounds reasonable. They wouldn't attack their creator of course, since he's by definition not his own enemy. But since they can't make decisions, they cannot decide whether someone else is friendly.

-I told him that when ordered to attack, the skeletons will take the most direct route to the target, even walking through threat areas. They will not move into postion on purpose that lets them flank.

That's right. They cannot use tactics because they cannot plan ahead. Unless ordered otherwise, they'll usually attack the closest target they see.

-The skeletons have no profession, can have no feats and are therefore not proficient in using weapons and armor (i.e. they will attack at -4 with any weapon and suffer non-proficent penalties using armor).
-Skeletons cannot be 'taught' anything. You cannot train a skeleton to use a skill, weapon or to wear armor.

I believe that's correct.

-The Cleric ordered the skeletons to attack the 'white skinned' people (Wights). Can the skeletons determine what this means? Do skeletons have the intelligence to determine who the 'white skinned' ones are, as opposed to just attacking anyone?

Yes, they can follow conditional orders. For instance, undead are commonly ordered to spare creatures bearing a particular badge, or those who speak a predefined password.

They might not follow orders in exactly the way the controller expects, though. They might be overly literal about what "white" means, so a wight with dirty skin would be considered grey. Or, they might be too liberal about the meaning, attacking anyone with lighter than average skin. This is why mindless undead don't make very reliable servants.

Note that darkvision does not see colors. If there was no light, nothing at all would appear "white", so the skeletons wouldn't attack anything at all.

-Can a skeleton Climb, Jump or Swim or use any other skill that can be used untrained? Is a skeleton intelligent enough to climb a rope or jump over a 3 foot wide pit? Even if the owner commands them, "Climb that rope." does the skeleton even know what that means?

Yes, they can take simple actions like that. They may not succeed, since they don't have ranks in any skills, but that doesn't mean they won't follow the order.

Since they're unintelligent, they don't know what they're incapable of. If you order a bunch of skeletons to jump across a mile-wide canyon, they'll attempt it, and fall to their destruction at the bottom.

-Can a skeleton use a command activated item?

No. Activating a command item takes something more than just speaking a word. This is why it takes a standard action, when simply speaking is a free action. It's also the reason why you cannot activate items with a spell like magic mouth.

-Can a skeleton hide or move silently? Do they know what to do if their owner orders them to hide?

Hmm. That, I'd judge on a case-by-case basis.
If the controller simply says "hide," they won't know what to hide from. They might just crouch down and cover themselves with their arms, or something like that.

If ordered to "hide behind that pillar, on the side furthest from the door," I'd have the skeleton do as expected. It'd make an ordinary untrained Hide check.

 

[Sejs]

-He told a skeleton to attack any enemy that comes through the door. I said that the skeleton cannot determine who is a friend or enemy and will attack anything.

Yep - the only person the skeleton wouldn't attack is it's controller. It would attack a human in full plate and a rat with equal fervor. Likewise, if someone stood right outside the door - the skeleton wouldn't attack.

-I told him that when ordered to attack, the skeletons will take the most direct route to the target, even walking through threat areas. They will not move into postion on purpose that lets them flank.

Yep, skeletons would take the most direct route, including moving through threatened areas, water, etc. But not off a cliff, for instance.. because then it wouldn't be very direct at all now would it? Heh. They would stop and attack as soon as they were within reach. They would not naturally move to flank unless ordered to, but if there's already another combatant in the way, they would move around to the next available open space. Which would eventually lead to flanking if there were enough combatants crammed around one target.. but it would be by accident rather than design.

-The skeletons have no profession, can have no feats and are therefore not proficient in using weapons and armor (i.e. they will attack at -4 with any weapon and suffer non-proficent penalties using armor).

Correct again. Note, however that if a non-intelligent undead is Awakened (via the Awaken Undead spell from Savage Species) they then regain any weapon and armor proficiencies that they had in life. But no other feats.

-Skeletons cannot be 'taught' anything. You cannot train a skeleton to use a skill, weapon or to wear armor.

Yep. A non-ability score for intelligence means the creature in question cannot learn. So you can put armor on the skeleton, but they'll always be non proficient with it as long as they're unintelligent. They also won't take it off unless ordered to. That being said, there is a really handy use for skeletons - Tower Shield Bearers.

Here are some other situations:
-The Cleric ordered the skeletons to attack the 'white skinned' people (Wights). Can the skeletons determine what this means? Do skeletons have the intelligence to determine who the 'white skinned' ones are, as opposed to just attacking anyone? If the cleric pointed to a specific target and said "attack that one." there would be no problem.

Skeletons still have normal vision, so they can determine color. They would attack humanoids that had literally white skin. Caucasian people would slip by. Someone with white skin that bundled up such that you can't see any of their skin would get by. Someone with white skin that was really really dirty would get by.

-Can a skeleton Climb, Jump or Swim or use any other skill that can be used untrained? Is a skeleton intelligent enough to climb a rope or jump over a 3 foot wide pit? Even if the owner
commands them, "Climb that rope." does the skeleton even know what that means?

Yes. They can perform gross physical skills that can be performed untrained. If their commander tells them to jump over a pit, they'll try to jump over the pit.. reguardless of if they stood any chance of success or not. If you told a skeleton to jump across the Grand Canyon, it would try it's darndest to do so. And almost definitly expire on impact.

-Can a skeleton use a command activated item?

Nope. To do so it would have to know how, and since it can't learn...

-Can a skeleton hide or move silently? Do they know what to do if their owner orders them to hide?

I'd probably have to say No on this one. Commands of 'Hide yourselves' and 'Advance on them quietly' would require a little thought on the part of the skeleton. Which they can't do. But things like 'Stand behind this colum' or 'Bury yourself in this dirt to a depth of *so far*' would work, as those are direct orders to perform an action.

-Is it safe to assume that skeletons know nothing other than moving and fighting?

They know how to take orders well. Also, most skeletons seem to be fond of needle point and watching soap operas for some reason.

 

[Tewligan]

Hey, this thread fits in with something I was thinking of a while back. Is an unintelligent undead able to copy written text? A wizard with a few skeletons under his command could set up his own publishing house. Just put the text to be copied in front of the skeleton, a quill in its hand, and have it reproduce the markings on the page in front of it. Skeletons have a decent DEX, and they wouldn't have to actually be able to read what's in front of them. I just like the image of a room full of skeletons, silently copying textbooks for a school of wizardry or something.

 

[SpuneDagr]

Yeah, Swim can be used untrained, but skeletons would probably have a real hard time doing that. It would be like trying to use a rake as a paddle - you don't get very far. I'd give'em a stiff penalty (unless you wanted them to just walk across the bottom).

 

[Sejs]

Hey, this thread fits in with something I was thinking of a while back. Is an unintelligent undead able to copy written text? A wizard with a few skeletons under his command could set up his own publishing house. Just put the text to be copied in front of the skeleton, a quill in its hand, and have it reproduce the markings on the page in front of it. Skeletons have a decent DEX, and they wouldn't have to actually be able to read what's in front of them. I just like the image of a room full of skeletons, silently copying textbooks for a school of wizardry or something.

Even better - a skeleton couldn't trigger runes, glyphs, etc that are set off by reading them, even when they're copying.

They can't read, interpret, or learn.

^_^

 

[AuraSeer]

Hey, this thread fits in with something I was thinking of a while back. Is an unintelligent undead able to copy written text?

I'd say yes, but not very well. It takes a lot of practice to be able to write legibly. (Remember doing penmanship drills in elementary school?) A skeleton could only copy as well as a young child who has just picked up a pen for the first time, and it would never get better.

The first copy would probably be servicable, but not pretty. If you had them start to make copies of copies, I'd say a certain percentage of the pages become unreadable after each generation. Maybe students of your necromantic school would need ranks in Decipher Script, just to read their textbooks.

 

[The Blue Elf]

Put it this way the Undead hate the living because they are living and of course some Undead that have intelligent mind such as a Vampire.

If you read Ravanloft you might get some idea how undead characters are for example Lord Soth who happens to be an cursed undead man who was in Dragonlance for some reason some undead don't care for the living.

 

[Norfleet]

I'd say the opposite, that a skeleton would copy things with an almost mechanical precision. On the other hand, the skeleton wouldn't be able to correct a paper jam, so if the papers the skeleton was copying to got jammed, it would either stop copying, or continue attempting to copy, probably tearing or mutilating the page in question.