Just how specific with a Ready action?

[daemonslye]

Just how granular in specificity must a ready action be?
Examples:

(VS=very specific; MS=moderately specific; G=generalization)

1. (VS) If an enemy approaches within 40' and I have an
unobstructed straight line to the square they enter, I
charge and attack with my axe. Additionaly, I name them
my "dodge" opponent.

2. (MS) If the (assumed) spellcaster wearing the ochre robe
standing 30' away from me attempts to cast a spell using
visible (verbal or somatic) components OR moves to to the
outer range of my partial charge distance, I charge the
foe and use my "smite" attack and power attack at +5.

3. (G) If any enemy in the room starts to cast a spell OR looks
like they are using a spell-like ability, I shoot them with my
bow.

I guess what I am trying to determine is what is the complexity
allowed in the "rule operation" to create a Ready action?

Are boolean operators - if this OR/AND/NOT/AND NOT allowed?
Example:
"If this OR this OR this AND that but NOT the other occur THEN I use this OR this action".

Just how fine a grain do we allow for a Ready action?

Additionally,

If an event that you have readied for in a particular round
does not occur, I assume you continue to be ready for that
event until your next turn. At that point you may "drop the
ready action" and perform your standard actions or continue
the ready. Now if the event occurs before your turn in the
following round, you may perform the ready action but your
initiative count rises to the point in which the event occured
and you do not perform other actions that round. Is this
correct? Or, because the ready is only a partial action, you
perfrom the partial then have a MEA or even a standard+MEA
after your readied partial has occured?

Finally, how does Haste affect the above? Can you use your
extra partial action in a round to Ready? If the event occurs
during that round, do you then get your Standard action right
after you complete your Readied partial?

Thanks in advance for your comments or pointers to more info.

~D

 

[Shayuri]

As I understand it there's two ways to "ready" an action.

One of them is general, and it's called Delaying. You can Delay a partial action to take place at any point in the initiative cycle (with limits as per the PHB). This is often done to coordinate attacks with others, and so on. I don't *think* a Delayed action can react to an enemy's action...say, to interrupt a spell or to counterspell or whatnot.

The other way is what's actually called Readying, and it involves setting a trigger event. When the trigger event comes to pass you can immediately take your partial action, even if it's during an enemy turn. The partial action does not need to be specified, but the trigger event does. If the trigger event doesn't happen (say, you set it as "when Goober casts a spell" and Goober doesn't) then you treat your Readied action as a Delayed action instead.

Haste doesn't change any rules. You can Ready either the standard action (which changes it to a partial) or the hasted action (which is a partial to begin with). You can choose to take the unreadied action either before or after the readied.

At least, this is how I think it all works. I should probably go look it up now that I've gone to the trouble of posting.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

I don't *think* a Delayed action can react to an enemy's action...say, to interrupt a spell or to counterspell or whatnot.

The other way is what's actually called Readying, and it involves setting a trigger event. When the trigger event comes to pass you can immediately take your partial action, even if it's during an enemy turn. The partial action does not need to be specified, but the trigger event does. If the trigger event doesn't happen (say, you set it as "when Goober casts a spell" and Goober doesn't) then you treat your Readied action as a Delayed action instead.

Yes, delayed actions cannot interrupt a foe's action.

But I think you are incorrect about readied actions turning into delayed actions if the trigger doesnt happen. If the trigger doesnt occur, you simply do nothing, and you take your turn in the same order as before. Only if the readied action is triggered does your initiative change.

As for how specific you have to be, I think it is mostly up to the DM, because there is so much gray area. Typical things in my campaign that we ready are:
"If that wizard starts to cast a spell, I shoot at him."
"I attack the first foe that steps within ten feet of me." (Remember, you can take a five-foot step.)
"I fire at the first enemy that comes around the corner."

One big question mark is whether you have to designate a single foe. Such as if there are two enemy spellcasters and you want to ready an attack against the first one to start casting a spell.

Another question mark is whether you have time to make decisions with readied actions. For example, can you say, "I fire at any creature that comes in sight, if it looks like it is going to attack me." Or ... "I cast protection from elements spell (type to be determined) to protect myself against whatever kind of attack i am going to be hit with." Judgement calls!

 

[daemonslye]

Shayuri, thanks for the response -

I feel reasonably comfortable adjucating a Delay, however,
it does not seem very clear what your options are regarding
a Ready. In the PHB, some examples are given regarding
some examples of trigger events, but the SRD leaves this open.

The DMG p.63 has a little more information:

Adjucating the Ready Action
The ready action is particularly open-ended and requires that you make players using it be a specific as possible about what their characters are doing. If a character readies a spell so that it will be cast when a foe come at him or her, the player needs to specify the exact spell - and you're justified in making the player identify a specific foe, either one that the character is currently aware of or one that might come from a certain direction.

However, it still seems like other operators may be used. For
example, the character may make a Wisdom check not to shoot
someone coming through a door if not specified (ie. their friend
comes through the door).

I am specifically trying to rule whether you can use a Ready
action for an event trigger such as "if this OR this happens, I
do that".

Thanks,

~D

 

[Balgus]

i have always used it as action/ reaction. You just have to describe the action clearly enough so that you can react to it.

EX of valid situation- i have my bow knocked- the first head i see come out of that door, I will shoot at.

EX of not valid situation: I will hide behind the door and wait while my friend is in there to bring the baddies out. If the baddie is over 7 ft tall, I will hit him with my sword. If he is smaller than 5 ft, I will trip him with my whip. If my friend runs out first, I will activate my wand of fireballs on the next person thatcomes out...

When you ready an action, the trigger must be general enough so that you can think in a split second. If you have to calculate and rethink stradegies, I don't think you would be able to do that in time to get the readied action off.

So- I guess my answer is :

The more general, the better. If you get too specific, then it probably won't have a chance to get triggered. Plus, if you maek it too specific, and one piece is different, you lose the readied action- which is always a bummer.

 

[Drawmack]

Maybe it's the programmer in me but I would allow a PC to be as specific as they want with their ready action. But if they go all and this or that not this they should expect that I'm going to take a couple of seconds and do up a truth table then find the hole and exploit it.

 

[daemonslye]

Here is where my problem is:

In the original post:

Ex #1 = fine with me
Ex #3 = no way - you need a single "target"

Ex#2 = this is where I need some help.

..Finally, I wanted to confirm my assumptions above
regarding ready (as you click into the new round)
and ready w/haste.

Thanks!

~D

 

[Drawmack]

My general tests for readied actions are.
1) Single area or opponent?
2) Single action or MEA?
3) Easily decided?

(VS=very specific; MS=moderately specific; G=generalization)

1. (VS) If an enemy approaches within 40' and I have an
unobstructed straight line to the square they enter, I
charge and attack with my axe. Additionaly, I name them
my "dodge" opponent.

This violates rule #1. A single opponent or area is not choosen. Have to pick a direction unless backed into a corner.

2. (MS) If the (assumed) spellcaster wearing the ochre robe
standing 30' away from me attempts to cast a spell using
visible (verbal or somatic) components OR moves to to the
outer range of my partial charge distance, I charge the
foe and use my "smite" attack and power attack at +5.

This meets number one as a single character is choosen. It also meets #3 it is easy to see if he moves or starts talking. It violates #2 though, that is not an MEA or a single action but rather a full-round action.

3. (G) If any enemy in the room starts to cast a spell OR looks
like they are using a spell-like ability, I shoot them with my
bow.

This violates #1, #2 & #3. Especially the spell-like ability bit.

 

[daemonslye]

Drawmack -

Thanks for the reply.

Ex #1 - I agree - you need to pick a direction but not
the specific target.

Ex #3 - Agree

Ex #2 -

It violates #2 though, that is not an MEA or a single action but rather a full-round action.

I agree it violates *your* "general test - rule #2". However,
it seems to me that, due to no other information to the
contrary, this will need to be ruled per DM as there is nothing
official on this. Correct?

My basis for determining the rule lies in this example:
You are watching an enemy spellcaster; if he attempts to
cast a spell, you move and grapple him, however, the ever
wily enemy decides to move first - beyond your partial
charge range, so you are also ready for this and you charge
and grapple him. Either way, unless he finds an obstruction
or uses an item or ability (always a way out, eh?) he will
find you near him. However, this Ready action does contain
an "OR" clause. How would you rule this?

Thanks

~D

 

[Drawmack]

From the SRD
Ready [Standard][AoO: No]
Description: The ready action lets a character prepare to take an action later, after a character's turn is over but before a character's next one has begun. Readying is a standard action, so a character can move as well. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that a character readies might do so).
Only partial actions can be readied. See the table in the description of "Start full round action" for a list of standard partial actions.
Specify the partial action a character will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. When those conditions are met, the character may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes before the action that triggers it. For the rest of the fight, the character's initiative result is the count on which the character took the readied action, and the character acts immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered the readied action.
If the character takes the readied action into a subsequent round, and the conditions are met before the character's normal initiative, the character's initiative rises to that new point in the order of battle, the character may take the readied action, and whether that action is taken or not, the character does not get a regular action that round.

See here it says you can only ready partial actions. So I would say no this is not my rule nor is it a per DM basis.