Just when Erica figures out Dire Animals...

[MythandLore]

Dammit. dammit, dammit!

So which is it? Are they stupid or greedy?

perhaps both

Yeah I agree.

WotC is owned by Hasbro, which is known to be stupid & greedy...

Very.

But Colonel...I didn't figure out dire animals...I made my own template that got as close as possible.

My dire template doesnt really come close to letting you many any of the dire animals in the MM by using the base animal stats in the back of the book.

Yeah it's not like the MM dire animals were well thought out in the first place though.
I like your template better, and it's much more useful, they should have made Dire a template in the first place.
I can't wait to see you take a shot at the legendaries.
I know you wont disapoint.

They can give us the lovely Drider template but no Dire or Legendary Creature template?

But I use the Drider template all the t... Never.
Never ever.
Never never ever, what were they thinking?

 

[herald]

I'd expect that they will have it in the Monster Manual 2.

 

[jester47]

words from Mr. Cook.

I threw this one by Monte Cook, and he explained why they did not make a Dire Template, and he has some other things to add too:

jester47
Registered User
(2/18/02 7:59:14 pm)
Reply | Edit Monte- Question about templates in the MM
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Some people have been wondering over at d20reviews.com what the reasoning was for not using a Dire template in the MM. The argument is such that they figure that the Dire and Legendary creatures should be based in a template. Also, why was there not a skeleton template?

Aaron Webb

Monte Cook
ezOP
(2/19/02 152 am)
Reply
Community Supporter
Re: Monte- Question about templates in the MM
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It was never our intention to make "dire" a template because it was never our intention for the list of dire creatures to grow appreciably. There is a point, I think, where modularity can go too far. (I wouldn't want to see, for example, dire pigeons or dire rabbits.) The whole purpose of "dire" was to get some animals into a higher CR range so that druid and ranger abilities didn't just suck after 6th level or so.

The skeleton thing--I'm with you on that one. There should have been a skeleton and zombie template. Jonathan put one on the wizards' website. I myself put some different kinds of undead templates in an upcoming Wizards book (yes, THAT one).
Monte
http://www.montecook.com

So there you have it! It was not Greed or stupidity, but rather they were simply making a design choice!

happy boarding.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The list of Dire animals grew appreciably in Masters of the Wild. OK, so Monte is no longer with WotC, but many of the 3e design team is still there.

I think it's a screw-up in thinking, and shows a lack of humor. So what if a Dire template could be used to make Dire rabbits? How does that hurt anything? What, they couldn't stand the thought of people having fun?

"Thou shalt not inject humor into thy game."

"Please sit quietly with your hands folded as we now run the combat."

"Those laughing will be asked to leave."

Alright, that part of the rant is over, but I still don't understand the reasoning.

First, they should have known, given the foresight they seemed to have with a lot of other things, that players would want Dire animals that were not in the Monster Manual - where were the Dire crocodiles? That seems as logical as a Dire bear, since prehistoric crocodiles like deinosuchus really did achieve enormous proportions, while even the cave bear never came close to the size of the Dire bear as pictured in the MM.

Second, a Dire template could have allowed a lot of the "giant" animals from earlier editions to be easily converted. Giant frogs are a good example; there are Dire toads in masters of the Wild. Even if they didn't like the thought of Dire frogs during game design, the fact that giant frogs were such a staple of 1e/2e should have prompted them to include them in the Dire animal section.

Third, it really does seem like they simply didn't think Dire beavers and the like were "cool," based on the comment about Dire rabbits. That was a poor call on their part.

I like Monte's work - he's one of a handful of designers whose stuff I buy sight unseen - but the reasoning behind the Dire/Legendary creatures is something with which I disagree.

 

[jester47]

I would send emails to WotC customer service indicating that you want a Dire/Legendary animal template. The reason for this is that they do give input to the R&D guys and enough demand would make it appear. If you want it in the MM2, I would do it now as the thing is probably about to go into playtesting. But who knows.

Granted if they do develop a template for either of these, you can bet that some of the monsters will be different (like a Dire Wolf and a Template Dire Wolf) because there was not a "formula" for making a Dire animal. If there was then they would have had a template.

Aaron

 

[Krishnath]

making non-'template' direanimals is easy. Just advance the choosen creature to max HD, add one HD, give the creature on or two extraordinary abilities (such as the dire rats disease), increase the size by one catagory, and presto, instant dire animal. What's so hard about that?.

 

[jester47]

And where were you forthe last 14 messages?

Aaron

 

[Grazzt]

making non-'template' direanimals is easy. Just advance the choosen creature to max HD, add one HD, give the creature on or two extraordinary abilities (such as the dire rats disease), increase the size by one catagory, and presto, instant dire animal. What's so hard about that?.

Because it still doesnt mimic the way WotC did it in the MM. The Dire Lion for example, is the same size as the normal lion (both are Large). Also, a lot of animals (the rat comes to mind) can't advance (in the sense that they have no advanement range).

 

[el-remmen]

I just make normal animals one or two size categories bigger. . .It has seemed to work for me - sure it is not "the perfect template" - but it works well enough.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

I for one would like to see Dire Rabbits -- that way I could remake Night of the Lepus!!!