Justice League: "A Better World" [Spoilers]

[WizarDru]

Well, that may just have been the best episode of the series, yet. The second season has been pretty damn impressive already, and this episode was like a love letter to the fans. Where to begin?

1. The Flash gets an episode to shine, for a change. Not just a sidekick or extra set of hands, we actually get to see him do something that he's best at, and showcase how he's not just 'superman without all the other powers'.
2. Doomsday? DOOMSDAY! Wow.
3. Superman's 'Hard Choices'. Both of them.
4. The Joker and Arkham. Umm...Yikes.
5. Lois and Superman's dinner conversation.
6. President Luthor.
7. Batman's self-help therapy session.

Really, really good stuff. This season of Justice League makes up for the somewhat lackluster work of last year (which arguably wasn't that bad, but wasn't terribly inspiring, either). I'm going to miss getting these new, 1-hour long shows, when they stop.

 

[Villano]

Well, that may just have been the best episode of the series, yet. The second season has been pretty damn impressive already, and this episode was like a love letter to the fans. Where to begin?

1. The Flash gets an episode to shine, for a change. Not just a sidekick or extra set of hands, we actually get to see him do something that he's best at, and showcase how he's not just 'superman without all the other powers'.
2. Doomsday? DOOMSDAY! Wow.
3. Superman's 'Hard Choices'. Both of them.
4. The Joker and Arkham. Umm...Yikes.
5. Lois and Superman's dinner conversation.
6. President Luthor.
7. Batman's self-help therapy session.

Really, really good stuff. This season of Justice League makes up for the somewhat lackluster work of last year (which arguably wasn't that bad, but wasn't terribly inspiring, either). I'm going to miss getting these new, 1-hour long shows, when they stop.

I thought it was interesting but flawed, which is how I feel about most of the series. I did enjoy seeing Flash being the focus and not just a goof. I especially liked the fact that they showed him being able to outmatch Superman in the speed department and hold his own in a fight with him (of course, the next episode they probably will show him unable to catch a speeding truck or a kid on a bicycle or something).

And I thought it was cool when Doomsday showed up, but was less than pleased with the way he was portrayed. Doomsday was intelligent? When did that happen? Also, the scene with his rant about how his skin can withstand a nuclear explosion, but then Superman's heat vision penetrates it was a bit much. I mean, does this mean that Supe's eye beams are hotter than a nuke? I'm having flashbacks to Hawkgirl batting back a "planet destroying" beam.

I would have preferred that Doomsday be given his own episode. Really portray him as the "even Darkseid's afraid of him" guy from the comics.

And how many things can a frontal lobotomy "cure"? The guys in Arkham run the gamut in terms of problems (schitzophrenia, multiple personality disorder, etc.).

And, finally, my biggest problem, Batman built a multi-dimensional gateway. Wha..?! Bats inventing a new knock-out gas capable of taking out Darksed? Okay, I can buy that. Bats hacking into an alien super-computer? Okay, I can buy that. Building dimensional portals? Sorry, suspension of disbelief has been shattered.

There are different levels of comic book genius. Using Marvel comics (since I'm more familiar with them in certain respects), Spider-Man, Iron Man, and Mr. Fantastic are all geniuses. But you certainly wouldn't ask Spider-Man to build you a time machine. Heck, you wouldn't even ask Iron Man.

Overall, my problem with the series is that it suffers from lazy writing. There are too many dues-ex-machinas in episodes. It seems that the writers just pull things out of the air way to often. I'm waiting for Supe's to whip out his "rebuilding the Great Wall of China" vision from Quest For Peace.

 

[WizarDru]

And I thought it was cool when Doomsday showed up, but was less than pleased with the way he was portrayed. Doomsday was intelligent? When did that happen? Also, the scene with his rant about how his skin can withstand a nuclear explosion, but then Superman's heat vision penetrates it was a bit much.

Did we ever establish that Doomsday wasn't intelligent? I mean, he didn't exactly get a lot of clever writing to begin with. He crashlands and starts hitting things and screaming. At least the JLA portrayl gave him something, as small as it was. And a large part of the whole scene was based on fan discussions of how 'if superman was willing to fight to the death, why didn't fight dirty?' Mind you, that assumes that Doomsday wasn't just a big, fat liar...and we know that couldn't possibly be true.

I would have preferred that Doomsday be given his own episode. Really portray him as the "even Darkseid's afraid of him" guy from the comics.

Bleh. There are so many ways that a combined league could defeat him, it's not even funny. If you want him as dumb as he was in the 'Death of Superman', then he's not going to be a very interesting villian...especially not for an hour.

And how many things can a frontal lobotomy "cure"? The guys in Arkham run the gamut in terms of problems (schitzophrenia, multiple personality disorder, etc.).

Well, I sort of made the leap there that first he lobotomized them, then they did other things to fix them, no matter how drastic. Joker had clearly been reprogrammed, not just lobotomized. I also enjoyed the fact that the dummy was lobotomized, not the ventriloquist.

And, finally, my biggest problem, Batman built a multi-dimensional gateway. Wha..?! Bats inventing a new knock-out gas capable of taking out Darksed? Okay, I can buy that. Bats hacking into an alien super-computer? Okay, I can buy that. Building dimensional portals? Sorry, suspension of disbelief has been shattered.

What, you find that such a big stretch? They killed Vandal Savage (or did something worse) and then Bats locked himself in a cave for a couple of years with infinite resources, his tech and his notes. The whole joke here is that the Justice Lords basically broke all of the rules...including, presumably stealing and using the bad guy's technology.

This episode was full of references to fans of both the comics and the show. Was I the only one who thought Wonder Woman's alternate costume looked like Wonder Girl's old outfit in the late 70s/early 80s, for example? If you're looking for a loophole, you might ask how John Stewart was able to stay an active member of the GLC, given his behavior. Of course, for all we know, they took care of them, too.

Given that they only have a half-hour to establish a plot (even if they are two-part episodes), I think they do quite well with seven main characters, a set of supporting cast and a set of stories focused on action. YMMV.

 

[Villano]

Did we ever establish that Doomsday wasn't intelligent? I mean, he didn't exactly get a lot of clever writing to begin with. He crashlands and starts hitting things and screaming. At least the JLA portrayl gave him something, as small as it was. And a large part of the whole scene was based on fan discussions of how 'if superman was willing to fight to the death, why didn't fight dirty?' Mind you, that assumes that Doomsday wasn't just a big, fat liar...and we know that couldn't possibly be true.

I didn't understand what you meant by "Did we ever establish that Doomsday wasn't intelligent?". Do you mean in the comics? There, he's pretty much just a mindless destruction machine.

And I doubt that he was lying. Why even toss something like that out if it doesn't have meaning or is reference again in the episode?

Like Hawkgirl's mace knocking back a planet destroying beam, Superman's eyes generate more power than a nuclear explosion. It's perfectly logical.

Bleh. There are so many ways that a combined league could defeat him, it's not even funny. If you want him as dumb as he was in the 'Death of Superman', then he's not going to be a very interesting villian...especially not for an hour.

In the comics, it was established that he was an ancient Kryptonian experiment. With that, you can bring Braniac into it. Also, giving the team something that cannot be stopped no matter how much they throw at it would make for an interesting story...if the writer bothered to put any thought to it.

What, you find that such a big stretch? They killed Vandal Savage (or did something worse) and then Bats locked himself in a cave for a couple of years with infinite resources, his tech and his notes. The whole joke here is that the Justice Lords basically broke all of the rules...including, presumably stealing and using the bad guy's technology.

Mr. Fantastic is a genius. Spider-Man is a genius. So if you gave Mr. Fantastic's time machine plans to Spider-man, he could build one? Not likely.

If they had had Bats say that it was tech stolen from some big bad like, say, Darkseid, I wouldn't have minded it. But turning Bats into super-genius was "dues-ex-machina" to me. You could imagine the writers' meeting.

Writer 1: "We need a way for the Justice Lords to get to our world"

Writer 2: "Batman builds a trans-dimensional portal!"

Writer 1: "Great! Moving on..."

That's about all the thought that went into it.

BTW, you can accept that Batman can build a portal but not that Doomsday can be an interesting villain?

To be fair, I doubt the writers could make him interesting since I don't have much faith in their abilities.

This episode was full of references to fans of both the comics and the show. Was I the only one who thought Wonder Woman's alternate costume looked like Wonder Girl's old outfit in the late 70s/early 80s, for example? If you're looking for a loophole, you might ask how John Stewart was able to stay an active member of the GLC, given his behavior. Of course, for all we know, they took care of them, too.

The GL thing didn't even occur to me. Again, there's no thought put into these things. They remind me more and more of the old Superfriend series, where villains' had equipment that could do virtually anything and they would come up with the stupidest plans for it. Or where Batman or Aquaman could fly if the writers wanted them to.

Again, I point to the old "Martian Manhunter grabs his head and falls to the ground" scene which appears so often. They have such a powerful character but, instead of coming up with a creative way of not having him end the fight in two seconds, they just have him scream and collapse. It's lazy.

Sorry if you think I'm coming down on it too hard on the series. Don't let my problems take away your enjoyment of it. I just don't think it's all that.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Actually, in the comics, after his first appearance, Doomsday
turned out not to be as dumb as he looks.

He just *really* likes smashin' things, but that's inprinted
into him, being an artificial/geneticaly engineered lifeform.

 

[Mog Elffoe]

Great episode!

As for Doomsday being intelligent, the last Superman comic I read with him he was fully capable of speech and making plans of his own. I didn't read everything leading up to it but apparently when his resurrection power kicked in after being killed by cosmic baddie Imperiex his new adaptation was smarts.

As for Batman building the dimensional transport machine, they never said that he invented it himself. Even if he did, so what? That was the Justice Lord Batman, not the 'real' Batman. Same with Green Lantern. Maybe the Guardians have a different code in their universe. That universe's Justice League certainly did. These kinds of complaints are pure nitpicking, nothing else.

 

[Villano]

These kinds of complaints are pure nitpicking, nothing else.

Pointing out one, minor problem in an episode is nitpicking. Pointing out logic loopholes which pop up several times in each and every episode is just bad writing. You might be able to overlook them, but I can't. When you watch something and constantly say, "Hey, wait a minute. If that happened, then what about this?" That isn't a good sign to me.

 

[jdavis]

I find I don't have that much of a problem suspending disbelief when I'm watching cartoons written for young teens and children. Granted I don't read DC comics so those problems don't bother me much (Doomsday is smart or dumb in the cartoon? who cares they never even called him by name, just name him Chuck the Destroyer and don't worry about it). As far as Batman building a dimensional doorway, eh why not, if he didn't build it then there wouldn't of been such a cool fight scene in the show and really that's all that matters. Maybe if they had a little more decent action in their action cartoon then Justice League would of done better. As far as lazy writing, I bet those two episodes will pull some decent ratings as that was definatly a fanboy episode and it had one of the better fights Superman has been involved in on it, in the end that's all that matters. Dragon Ball Z didn't get it's over the top ratings due to it's storyline, it was the crazy fighting that got it over, most 12 year olds don't care if Batman can make a dimensional portal or not, as long as it looks cool it works for them.

Now to the big question here, can Spider Man make a dimensional portal if he had Mr Fantastic's plans? Well of course not, he doesn't have the money to buy the parts. Of course I bet if a writer had a good storyline idea they'd figure out a way for him to build one, and who knows what "alternate world" Spiderman is capable of? In the comic book a college lab assistant Spiderman was able to create synthetic spider webs, a feat that real world scientist have been working on for years I don't think they really worry about the details here, if they wanted Spiderman to have a dimensional portal then he would tinker one up with parts from his microwave.

 

[paulewaug]

ahhhh--I liked it.
It was fun

Yes there have been nitpicky details you could drive a bus through if you wanted to, but it is still a pretty good show IMO.

They did sort of hand wave away the idea that Bats built the portal but it did come up. His response was basically "there's nothing else to do now" and they had said before that he had been cooped up in the cave for quite some time.

Of course I think that Peter (Parker) Could build Reeds time machine If he had his plans and could get his hands on the right materials. I don't think he could design it himself but that he could rig it together well enough to work, at least once to get the story started!

Reed is definitively the biggest scientific brain of Marvel and certainly smarter than any of DCs people. He would be head of Star Labs in no time!
Probably find a way to cure Superman of being vulnerable to kryptonite too!

I thought it was a little odd that Doomsday was yacking it up but no big, this is still just another "alternate universe" after all.
And it was nice to see the Flash doing his fastest man in the world thing, successfully!

I have to say I really like the Justice Lords costumes! Well most of them anyhow.
I though that Wonder Woman and Manhunter looked a little better, and Superman and Hawkgirl looked a Lot better.
Green Lantern and Bats I prefer in their "regular" costume--

And yeah it was a bit odd that supes could take Doomsday out that fast, but it was funny to see him (Dday) going on and on about how tough he was and then Bad-Supes fries his brain...hehe!!

Poison Ivy was cute and charming as always.

I missed that part about 'the dummy'! haha

I thought it was funny the soldiers were standing up to the League, like they stood a chance!
The Batman to Batman parts were nicely handled; I esp. like the part where 'our' Batman makes his point.

The really glaring nail in the coffin for those that would like to point out flaws and such was the end, with Luthor stopping after using his ray on the J.Lords and not turning it on the J.League. Although with Batman there it Was a smart idea to hand it over, since Bats has no powers Luthor would have just gotten his own butt kicked.
I'm wondering if the power disruption was permanent or temporary, and if it will ever matter.

But over all I agree it was another great episode and I liked it a lot, So far this season has been pretty enjoyable!

Hey but what do I know! I like the Teen Titans and DBZ too!!
hehe

 

[jasamcarl]

I actually saw this and it was actually pretty good, though I was concentrating on the pretty obvious (and not so obvious) political satire strewn throughout. And they actually set up a dramatic situation that puts many primetime dramas (The Practice anyone?) to shame. It surprised me, because whenever i watched this show latenight I had usually dismissed the characters as a pulp given, but something more complex was working with the voice acting and it all 'clicked'.

Now, I'm not a frequent viewer, and I don't read comics, but citing inconsistencies with the comic and referring to it as a 'logical flaw' or what not is misusing the term and not really putting a television show in its proper context.