Karmic Strike and Reach

[Gadsden]

A question regarding the following example:

Fighter 1 is a human wielding a great sword, giving him the typical 5' reach. He has the Karmic Strike feat active and declared against Fighter 2.

Fighter 2 is a human wielding a spiked chain, giving him the typical 5' or 10' reach, at his option.

Fighter 2 steps to within 10' of Fighter 1 and executes a Full Attack Action. The question is, would Fighter 1 be able to take advantage of the Karmic Strike feat by making Disarm or Sunder attempts (or any other attack action) as Attacks of Opportunity even though Fighter 2 stands outside his threatened area?

 

[Gort]

I would say yes. The rules may say otherwise.

 

[James McMurray]

I too would say yes. The FAQ makes it clear that NAtural Weapons can be attacked when they are attacking you, even when the creature doing the actual attacking has reach. Its not a big leap at all to apply this to manufactured weapons as well.

 

[Gadsden]

Even when the text of the Karmic Strike feat explicity states that you must threaten the creature to get the AoO? Weapons, limbs, or other sundry body parts do not provoke AoO - only creatures do.

And I am aware of the FAQ question to which you are referring regarding delivering a touch spell through a natural weapon of a creature with reach. But it is quite a leap from saying that you could use a readied action to touch a creature's natural weapon to saying that a reach weapon provokes an AoO against its wielder from a foe who lacks the reach to attack.

The question is not whether the chain can be attacked, but if the Karmic Strike feat allows a fighter an AoO against a foe he does not threaten.

 

[Artoomis]

It's not allowed by the rules as written, but I'd allow it. If you are getting hit, you should be able to react to it. Normally this would take a readied action, but Karmic Strike works kind of like that anyway.

 

[Gadsden]

It's not allowed by the rules as written, but I'd allow it. If you are getting hit, you should be able to react to it. Normally this would take a readied action, but Karmic Strike works kind of like that anyway.

Could you elaborate on that more... How would an Attack Action work against someone outside of the fighter's threatened area? The chain might have a 10 foot range, but it's only actually "in" the square the foe is in.

 

[Gadsden]

double post

 

[Artoomis]

Could you elaborate on that more? How would an Attack Action work against someone outside of the fighter's threatened area? The chain might have a 10 foot range, but it's only actually "in" the square the foe is in?

Sure. I'll elaborate.

EDIT: First, a disclaimer. this is NOT by the book.

I'd allow readied actions to sunder a weapon that enters my square. If it attacks me, it by golly enters my square! A disarm action would be okay, too.

You could NOT attack a reach weapon like this with normal attacks, though - only when it is in your square. That's why it takes a readied action - you wait for it to enter your square and then attempt to sunder it, or grab it, or knock it right out of the hands of the attacker.

A Karmic Strike sounds like this sort of action to me. The weapon is passing through your threatened squares, so you can attack it.

 

[Gadsden]

OK - that is all well and good and something I would probably allow with a Readied Action. But, the dispute revolves not around if the chain can be attacked but whether the attacker with the spike chain would provoke an AoO from his target standing 10 feet away.

Being that the Karmic Strike feat clearly states that the attacker must be within the threatened area to provoke the AoO, then no attack is made in the first place and the chain cannot be attacked.

 

[James McMurray]

Could you elaborate on that more... How would an Attack Action work against someone outside of the fighter's threatened area? The chain might have a 10 foot range, but it's only actually "in" the square the foe is in.

How can the weapon only be "in" the square the foe is in? It just hit you didn't it? Or is this some sort of magical spiked chain we're talking about that can hurt people without actually touching them?