Karmic Strike and Reach

[Gadsden]

How can the weapon only be "in" the square the foe is in? It just hit you didn't it? Or is this some sort of magical spiked chain we're talking about that can hurt people without actually touching them?

The chain does not occupy any square but the square the wielder occupies. The chain cannot provoke Attack of Opportunity. I have never heard of anyone having a miniture to depict the spiked chain their character wields.

We are not dealing with real-world physics but game mechanics. The chain allows the wielder to attack outside the threatened area and so would not provoke an AoO for someone with the Karmic Strike feat.

This fact is clearly worded within the description of the feat and yet I find myself confounded by those who wish to interject real-world phyics into a D&D game.

 

[Artoomis]

For further comment, I need to know the wording of the Karmic Strike feat. Can you quote the relevant part?

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

This fact is clearly worded within the description of the feat and yet I find myself confounded by those who wish to interject real-world phyics into a D&D game.

It happens. The insistence of using so-called real-world arguements to attempt to prove the abstracted rules of D&D quote Wrong end quote is unfortunately common place.

However, that is also what leads to some fairly fun house rules.

By the rules, unless it is a natural weapon, the character taking an AoO to sunder a weapon or disarm a foe must threaten that foe.

Also by the rules, KS clearly indicates that you must attack the opponent that hit you. Not his foot, sword, familiar, or other, but him. It further indicates quite clearly that you 'may' use an attack of opportunity to attack the foe that just hit you, i.e. you don't have to if you don't want to.

if you can't reach your foe with an AoO, you can't hit him.

However, there is a specific feat in either Complete Warrior or Miniatures (can't remember which, the one with the Tactical Soldier PrC), that states you may take a 5' step before making your attack of opportunity, even if you've already taken one.

Now give that to the great sword fighter opposing the spiked chain wielder and Karmic Strike suddenly works for him

Of course, tactical soldier + dervish dance + spiked chain + enlarged = hit everything within 30' or more 1 time on my round, then repeat with AoO's as necessary via KS.

Oh, and don't forget Deft Opportunist and Goad. They are fun with KS.

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, there is a specific feat in either Complete Warrior or Miniatures (can't remember which, the one with the Tactical Soldier PrC), that states you may take a 5' step before making your attack of opportunity, even if you've already taken one.

I don't have MiniHB, so I'm not sure how it's worded.

If I have a 5' reach, and there's a bowman ten feet away taking a shot, does this feat kick in? I don't threaten him at the time he provokes an AoO.

Or can I only take the 5' step before the AoO if I threaten him when he provokes?

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

...By the rules, unless it is a natural weapon, the character taking an AoO to sunder a weapon or disarm a foe must threaten that foe...

By the rules you can't do take an AoO or other any other direct melee action on a creature with unless you threaten it - with no exception for creatures with natural reach..

The FAQ suggests otherwise, but it's not in the rules as written, that's for sure.

The allowance readying an action to strike a weapon that is attempting to hit you is perfectly reasonable. Whether or nor this extends to Karmic Strike is something I cannot answer without seeing the actual language of Karmic Strike to see whether it fits or not.

My guideline would be:

If Karmic Strike is somehow creating a situation very much like an AoO, then my rule would not apply.

If Karmic Strike somehow adds something like a sixth sense to you to know the melee strike is coming, I would allow my rule to work.

The difference comes down to why you get the extra attack. Is it because of what someone does in your threatened area (they provoke an AoO somehow) or because you see something out of the corner of your eye and react?

All House Rules, of course. By Core Rules, the answer is an obvious no - Karmic Strike does not apply.

 

[Gadsden]

I don't want to infringe on any copyrights, so I will just paraphrase. The fighter takes a -4 penalty to AC and receives the ability to make an AoO against any creature that hits him with a melee attack or melee touch attack. The AoO only applies against foes within the fighter's threatened area (this is stated very clearly and the basis of my argument), and the fighter cannot take any more AoOs per round then he would otherwise be entitled to.

 

[Darklone]

The MiniHB feat is called Sidestep IIRC... allows you to take one 5ft extra per round while making an AoO.

 

[Artoomis]

I don't want to infringe on any copyrights, so I will just paraphrase. The fighter takes a -4 penalty to AC and receives the ability to make an AoO against any creature that hits him with a melee attack or melee touch attack. The AoO only applies against foes within the fighter's threatened area (this is stated very clearly and the basis of my argument), and the fighter cannot take any more AoOs per round then he would otherwise be entitled to.

Based on that, I'd say it's a tough call. The "by the rules" answer is clear and does not need restatement.

If you allow readied actions as I stated above, then it's a tough call. The -4 to AC does make it seem like the fighter is dropping some defense to sort of ready to attack whatever attacks him, and this is sort of similar to readying actions, so I'd allow it. Strictly a rules variant, though.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Based on that, I'd say it's a tough call. The "by the rules" answer is clear and does not need restatement.

If you allow readied actions as I stated above, then it's a tough call. The -4 to AC does make it seem like the fighter is dropping some defense to sort of ready to attack whatever attacks him, and this is sort of similar to readying actions, so I'd allow it. Strictly a rules variant, though.

Actually it's still quite clear. Readied actions are not AoO's of any sort. Karmic Strike allows an AoO to be taken.

Can you AoO a non-threatened individual? No
Can you ready an action to strike a weapon striking you? Rules debatable question.

Technically, you are readying an action to sunder a weapon. Rules clearly indicate that in order to sunder a non-natural weapon, you must threaten the wielding foe. However, it makes a lot of sense that a weapon must enter your square to hit you, thus you can hit it.

So can you KS a reach weapon wielder when using a 5' weapon and not threatening? Clearly no, although simultaneous use of the Sidestep feat would allow you step 5', and if you then threatened the foe, you would hit with the AoO

Can you use KS to hit the weapon? Again, clearly no, due to the wording of the feat itself.

Can you ready an action to sunder the weapon? Most assuredly, although I question why you are striking the weapon and not readying to move closer and hit the foe?

 

[Darklone]

Can you ready an action to sunder the weapon? Most assuredly, although I question why you are striking the weapon and not readying to move closer and hit the foe?

Enlarged Chain wielder with 20ft reach?