Karmic Strike: Undefeatable.......?

[Felon]

Hence why KS doesn't work against IG. Grappling is not a melee attack. It does not inflict damage. You simply make a melee touch attack to grab hold of someone, not inflict damage.

Starting a grapple is not "hitting" with a melee attack. Successfully starting a grapple does not inflict any damage whatsoever. And IUS does not negate KS because it is still an attack that you must hit with. Starting a grapple is not "hitting" someone and doesn't inflict damage. You can hit someone with your fist or foot, but you don't hit with a grapple, you just grapple.

Come come now. In no way, shape, or form, either through connotation or denotation, does "hitting" mean damage must be dealt. You can get "hit" with a spitball or a nerf bat.

If you read the description of KS it mentions, "If you hit with your attack of opportunity both you and your opponent deal and take damage simultaneously". This implies that the feat triggers only on melee attacks that inflict damage. Grappling doesn't do that.

There is no such text in the revised feat description (in Complete Warrior), but for arguement's sake, are you suggesting that we should infer just from that text that any attack doesn't inflict damage won't provoke an AoO? Like a sword that doesn't get through an opponent's damage reduction?

Wrong again, Hyp.

Challenging Hype? You're a gutsy kid. I'll miss you.

 

[duhtroll]

This definitely ranks up there in the useful category.

Whoever said you have to use KS all the time?

All I know is my LG monk6/tattooed monk 3 took this feat chain with defensive throw and is having all sorts of fun. Take the chameleon and crab tattoos and you have DR for every hit and NA bonus in order to not get hit. If you get missed and the opponent is your dodge buddy you get the trip/free attack combo.

Get that DR up to 6 or 8 later and this wiry little monk girl will stand in with any bruiser type. She'll take sidestep at 12th.

If this were FR she could use the blackscale lizardfolk form for alter self and get large monkey damage, too. Gotta love it.

It is not the most broken combo out there, but it's a he|| of a lot of fun!

-A

 

[moritheil]

I think Hypersmurf's posts clearly point out the way the rules are intended to work. But I have to ask for a clarification of your position here. If the character with KS had damage reduction of some sort, do you believe that he wouldn't get to use it if his attacker hit his AC but failed to do more damage than his DR?

Being hit and successfully doing damage are two different things. It's possible to do one, but not the other. KS is only concerned with getting hit, not actually suffering damage (though that is the most common effect of being hit).

Whoa there. If you rule it that way, a spellcaster with stoneskin up still has to make concentration checks from "being hit" despite not taking any damage due to the DR.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Whoa there. If you rule it that way, a spellcaster with stoneskin up still has to make concentration checks from "being hit" despite not taking any damage due to the DR.

Er... why? The rules don't say hitting a spellcaster forces a concentration check; they say damaging the spellcaster does.

-Hyp.

 

[moritheil]

Er... why? The rules don't say hitting a spellcaster forces a concentration check; they say damaging the spellcaster does.

-Hyp.

Hmm, I suppose it's worded thus in 3.5 to get around that. Personally, my quick search only turned up:

You must concentrate to cast a spell. If you can’t concentrate you can’t cast a spell. If you start casting a spell but something interferes with your concentration you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell.

But Hyp, surely you can find something similarly wacky that the rules suggest comes about as a result of that interpretation.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hmm, I suppose it's worded thus in 3.5 to get around that.

From the SRD:

Concentration DC/1 Distraction
10 + damage dealt Damaged during the action./2

1 If you are trying to cast, concentrate on, or direct a spell when the distraction occurs, add the level of the spell to the indicated DC.

2 Such as during the casting of a spell with a casting time of 1 round or more, or the execution of an activity that takes more than a single full-round action (such as Disable Device). Also, damage stemming from an attack of opportunity or readied attack made in response to the spell being cast (for spells with a casting time of 1 action) or the action being taken (for activities requiring no more than a full-round action). (See also Distracting Spellcasters, page 160.)

If you aren't damaged during the action, you don't need to make the concentration check.